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Re: Political Rhetoric Vocabulary

From: Thomas Francart <thomas.francart@sparna.fr>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 07:52:07 +0100
Message-ID: <CAPugn7XU3E0SFygjXkXzXxYuKOMQtOMziPMnyAd+Hm=85NvwfA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "R. V. Guha" <guha@guha.com>
Cc: Paul Watson <lazarus@lazaruscorporation.co.uk>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com>, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
StateOfUnionReport sounds US-centric (?)

Le 17 mars 2017 21:09, "R.V.Guha" <guha@guha.com> a écrit :

> Revised, highly simplified first step for the core.
>
> Political Discourse Vocabulary
>
> New subClass of CreativeWork: Speech, PressRelease, HeadOfStateStatement,
> Proclamation, ExecutiveAction
>
> New subClass of Speech: InauguralAddress, CommencementAddress,
> CampaignSpeech, StateOfUnionReport
>
> New subClass of Event: PressEvent
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:
>
>> On 16 March 2017 at 21:55, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>> > You are right. Political Discourse might be a better name for it.
>>
>> There are various overlapping ways in which these things might be
>> organized wr.t. "named hosted extension" subdomains ("lega" has been
>> mentioned for related work around legislation, courts etc; "civic" is
>> also in the air). My suggestion would be to asap get the basic term
>> definitions drafted into the "pending" section so that they can be
>> used and tested, and worry about how to name packages of terms as a
>> separable problem. Any attempt to partition vocab is always tricky
>> (e.g. ClaimReview for fact-checking is also discourse/argumentation)
>> but it shouldn't stop us from getting the basics in place. I'd also
>> like to see the earlier Legislation proposal progress, and wouldn't
>> want to slow either of these down by forcing a big debate for whether
>> they are part of a big "legal" vs "civic" vs "discourse" section....
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> ps. we also have http://pending.schema.org/Quotation which has some
>> discussion in https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/271 around
>> citations and date/time details
>>
>>
>> > guha
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Okay, so now that I see the subClasses, I'm not sure this is about
>> >> rhetoric. I thought this vocab was going to be about the sorts of
>> arguments
>> >> and appeals that people make in politics, maybe something along the
>> lines of
>> >> AML: http://www.ai.sri.com/~seas/aml/
>> >>
>> >> or what this W3C group is working on:
>> >> https://www.w3.org/community/argumentation/
>> >>
>> >> Rhetoric is about language, persuasion, and reasoning:
>> >> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rhetoric
>> >>
>> >> Another way to put it: rhetoric is about content and style.
>> >>
>> >> The vocab we have so far seems more like a list of events, of venues
>> where
>> >> a politician might give a speech, as well as a couple of documents a US
>> >> President might issue (and others have noted the US-centricity of it).
>> >> That's not really about rhetoric – that's just a list of things
>> Presidents
>> >> do in the general domain of speeches and press releases.
>> >>
>> >> It also strikes me as odd that Political Rhetoric would be narrowed
>> down
>> >> to what chief executives of a nation do. Even if we thought that
>> rhetoric
>> >> meant giving a speech to this audience, then to another audience, etc.,
>> >> there's no reason to suppose that the only speakers we care about are
>> chief
>> >> executives of countries. That's not even half of the goings-on in the
>> domain
>> >> of politicians going around giving speeches and releasing statements or
>> >> orders. There are legislators, governors, state legislators, lobbyists,
>> >> activists, etc. – a lot of political action of the
>> speeches-and-releases
>> >> variety doesn't even come from people in government, but people
>> outside of
>> >> it. So if this is meant specifically to encode some important things
>> about
>> >> what national chief executives do, I suggest calling it something more
>> like
>> >> Political Events or Political Addresses.
>> >>
>> >> By the way, I'll probably try to dovetail with this at some point in
>> the
>> >> next or so – I own argumentbase.com (there's nothing there yet), but
>> I plan
>> >> to build a schema for arguments and positions (mostly political in
>> nature),
>> >> including evidence quality, which will be very interesting and
>> perilous as
>> >> far as pulling it off without ruining it with unconscious political
>> biases
>> >> (I'm the lead author of this paper, so I'm always worried about
>> political
>> >> bias.) I'll need a lot of help to keep it clean and maximally useful.
>> >>
>> >> Ciao,
>> >>
>> >> Joe
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:44 AM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Absolutely. My hope is to have both.
>> >>>
>> >>> guha
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com
>> >
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My preference is for InauguralAddress, as HOS is specific to the
>> country
>> >>>> level, but I would like to be able to describe entities such as
>> those in
>> >>>> this page:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.westgov.org/news/357-news-2017/1341-western-gove
>> rnors-deliver-inaugural-speeches
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --Eric
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 3:54 PM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> What is the reasoning behind having both "InauguralAddress" and
>> >>>>>> "USPInauguralAddress"? My concern is that (unless we adopt a less
>> US-centric
>> >>>>>> prefix such as "HOS" - see below) then we will end up with
>> requests for
>> >>>>>> near-identical classes for many other major countries.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> InauguralAddress could potentially cover a much larger set of
>> >>>>> inaugurals. but I completely agree with your suggestion of
>> replacing USP
>> >>>>> with HOS.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> guha
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Eric Axel Franzon
>> >>>>
>> >>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericfranzon
>> >>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/EricAxel
>> >>>> G+: http://http://gplus.to/ericfranzon
>> >>>> Online Business Card: http://ericaxel.magntize.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
Received on Saturday, 18 March 2017 06:52:42 UTC

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