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Re: Political Rhetoric Vocabulary

From: R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 07:32:44 -0700
Message-ID: <CABieRRJ+hrQCKPf4H4_QNAF5ZOez1sQmoDUc07xxDxn5EDn+Sw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Thomas Francart <thomas.francart@sparna.fr>
Cc: Paul Watson <lazarus@lazaruscorporation.co.uk>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com>, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
Yes, there are a lot of countries where there is nothing like a
StateOfUnion and so it is a bit US centric.

But since we have a concrete use (i.e., a bunch of sites and an
application) that is of general interest, I think that should be fine.

guha

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:52 PM, Thomas Francart <thomas.francart@sparna.fr
> wrote:

> StateOfUnionReport sounds US-centric (?)
>
> Le 17 mars 2017 21:09, "R.V.Guha" <guha@guha.com> a écrit :
>
>> Revised, highly simplified first step for the core.
>>
>> Political Discourse Vocabulary
>>
>> New subClass of CreativeWork: Speech, PressRelease, HeadOfStateStatement,
>> Proclamation, ExecutiveAction
>>
>> New subClass of Speech: InauguralAddress, CommencementAddress,
>> CampaignSpeech, StateOfUnionReport
>>
>> New subClass of Event: PressEvent
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16 March 2017 at 21:55, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>>> > You are right. Political Discourse might be a better name for it.
>>>
>>> There are various overlapping ways in which these things might be
>>> organized wr.t. "named hosted extension" subdomains ("lega" has been
>>> mentioned for related work around legislation, courts etc; "civic" is
>>> also in the air). My suggestion would be to asap get the basic term
>>> definitions drafted into the "pending" section so that they can be
>>> used and tested, and worry about how to name packages of terms as a
>>> separable problem. Any attempt to partition vocab is always tricky
>>> (e.g. ClaimReview for fact-checking is also discourse/argumentation)
>>> but it shouldn't stop us from getting the basics in place. I'd also
>>> like to see the earlier Legislation proposal progress, and wouldn't
>>> want to slow either of these down by forcing a big debate for whether
>>> they are part of a big "legal" vs "civic" vs "discourse" section....
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> ps. we also have http://pending.schema.org/Quotation which has some
>>> discussion in https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/271 around
>>> citations and date/time details
>>>
>>>
>>> > guha
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Okay, so now that I see the subClasses, I'm not sure this is about
>>> >> rhetoric. I thought this vocab was going to be about the sorts of
>>> arguments
>>> >> and appeals that people make in politics, maybe something along the
>>> lines of
>>> >> AML: http://www.ai.sri.com/~seas/aml/
>>> >>
>>> >> or what this W3C group is working on:
>>> >> https://www.w3.org/community/argumentation/
>>> >>
>>> >> Rhetoric is about language, persuasion, and reasoning:
>>> >> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rhetoric
>>> >>
>>> >> Another way to put it: rhetoric is about content and style.
>>> >>
>>> >> The vocab we have so far seems more like a list of events, of venues
>>> where
>>> >> a politician might give a speech, as well as a couple of documents a
>>> US
>>> >> President might issue (and others have noted the US-centricity of it).
>>> >> That's not really about rhetoric – that's just a list of things
>>> Presidents
>>> >> do in the general domain of speeches and press releases.
>>> >>
>>> >> It also strikes me as odd that Political Rhetoric would be narrowed
>>> down
>>> >> to what chief executives of a nation do. Even if we thought that
>>> rhetoric
>>> >> meant giving a speech to this audience, then to another audience,
>>> etc.,
>>> >> there's no reason to suppose that the only speakers we care about are
>>> chief
>>> >> executives of countries. That's not even half of the goings-on in the
>>> domain
>>> >> of politicians going around giving speeches and releasing statements
>>> or
>>> >> orders. There are legislators, governors, state legislators,
>>> lobbyists,
>>> >> activists, etc. – a lot of political action of the
>>> speeches-and-releases
>>> >> variety doesn't even come from people in government, but people
>>> outside of
>>> >> it. So if this is meant specifically to encode some important things
>>> about
>>> >> what national chief executives do, I suggest calling it something
>>> more like
>>> >> Political Events or Political Addresses.
>>> >>
>>> >> By the way, I'll probably try to dovetail with this at some point in
>>> the
>>> >> next or so – I own argumentbase.com (there's nothing there yet), but
>>> I plan
>>> >> to build a schema for arguments and positions (mostly political in
>>> nature),
>>> >> including evidence quality, which will be very interesting and
>>> perilous as
>>> >> far as pulling it off without ruining it with unconscious political
>>> biases
>>> >> (I'm the lead author of this paper, so I'm always worried about
>>> political
>>> >> bias.) I'll need a lot of help to keep it clean and maximally useful.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ciao,
>>> >>
>>> >> Joe
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:44 AM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Absolutely. My hope is to have both.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> guha
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Eric Franzon <
>>> eric.franzon@gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> My preference is for InauguralAddress, as HOS is specific to the
>>> country
>>> >>>> level, but I would like to be able to describe entities such as
>>> those in
>>> >>>> this page:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> https://www.westgov.org/news/357-news-2017/1341-western-gove
>>> rnors-deliver-inaugural-speeches
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --Eric
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 3:54 PM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Hi,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> What is the reasoning behind having both "InauguralAddress" and
>>> >>>>>> "USPInauguralAddress"? My concern is that (unless we adopt a less
>>> US-centric
>>> >>>>>> prefix such as "HOS" - see below) then we will end up with
>>> requests for
>>> >>>>>> near-identical classes for many other major countries.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> InauguralAddress could potentially cover a much larger set of
>>> >>>>> inaugurals. but I completely agree with your suggestion of
>>> replacing USP
>>> >>>>> with HOS.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> guha
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Eric Axel Franzon
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericfranzon
>>> >>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/EricAxel
>>> >>>> G+: http://http://gplus.to/ericfranzon
>>> >>>> Online Business Card: http://ericaxel.magntize.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
Received on Saturday, 18 March 2017 14:33:20 UTC

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