Re: journal article for next call?

Hi Owen,

These are all good points. I believe think we're heading in the same
direction now, with the decision to base both Publication and Issuance on
the Collection class [1], which is itself a subclass of CreativeWork.

Regarding 'PublicationIssue', I was thinking the same thing. +1 from me on
that.

I haven't really thought this next thing through, but might it even be
feasible to make the issue class a subclass of Publication? It might lead
to some non-applicable properties though. (Can an issue itself have an
ISSN? What would that mean?)

(In general it seems schema.org uses classes more like a grab bag (union)
of possible properties, rather than a more nested, rigid hierarchy. I find
that ok, especially since RDF really is property-oriented, so the fact that
these "bags of possible shapes" rarely match the shapes of (descriptions
of) any instance thereof isn't too disturbing. In principle, I think I'd
prefer more "mix-in" patterns though – to compose classes based on multiple
superclasses defining related aspects. But within reasonable bounds, this
can evolve as needed.)

Cheers,
Niklas

[1]: http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Collection



On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com> wrote:

> Sorry I only managed to get on the very end of the call so you may well
> have covered this in your discussions.
>
> I can see the motivation, but I think that its misleading in other ways -
> especially as the issue will have a physical manifestation in some cases.
> I'd argue that the issue is a creative work - especially if we are talking
> about issues of less "academic" periodicals - for example the January issue
> of Wired is surely a creative work in it's own right? The issues will have
> editorials which are based around the issue, although they are obviously
> creative works in their own right as well.
> We also hit the problem of dealing with edited monographs where each
> chapter is originally an article published elsewhere - how do these differ
> from a journal issue in terms of creativity? (they differ in other ways of
> course - not least in their relationship to a 'journal')
>
> So - I think while for some issues I'd agree the creativity involved in
> building the issue is minimal, I don't think this applies across the board
> and I don't fancy getting into debates as to which issues are creative and
> which are not!
>
> In terms of pagination going into CreativeWork I don't feel strongly -
> there are plenty of properties on CreativeWork that don't apply to all more
> specific types under CreativeWork so I don't see a particular problem there
> if the wider community is OK with it. It would apply to book chapters if
> there is markup for those in the future which would be nice.
>
> Finally I can't say I'm keen on Issuance although it's not something I'd
> lose sleep over. Perhaps something like 'PublicationIssue' might work?
>
> Owen
>
>  Owen Stephens
> Owen Stephens Consulting
> Web: http://www.ostephens.com
> Email: owen@ostephens.com
> Telephone: 0121 288 6936
>
> On 21 Nov 2013, at 14:30, Dan Scott <denials@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for this Dan. I'm afraid I can't make the call today but I had a
> question - why is 'Issuance' under 'Intangible' and not 'CreativeWork'?
>
>
> Great question Owen!
>
> My rationale was that I was hoping to avoid the mass of properties you
> inherit from CreativeWork, with the goal of guiding users of these
> types towards consistent usage patterns (that is to say, keeping data
> about the Periodical at the Periodical level, and data about the
> Article at the Article level, and keeping a bare minimum of data at
> the Issuance level). Of the CreativeWork properties, "datePublished"
> was the most obviously useful one.
>
> Last night I was musing that "editor" may also come into play at the
> level of a given Issuance and probably should be drafted into Issuance
> as well; but the rest of the properties seem more appropriate to be
> applied to the Periodical as a whole, or to the individual Articles
> within the given Issuance.
>
> I thought the Series / Episode pattern might be instructive for our
> Periodical / Issuance. Episode inherits from CreativeWork, but the
> more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that an Episode really
> is a standalone CreativeWork, whereas a given issue of a periodical is
> generally not much more than a collection of individual CreativeWorks.
> To be sure, the editor of a given issue does put their stamp on the
> end result, puts in a tremendous amount of labour coordinating efforts
> of the various contributors, and often guides the subject matter
> chosen for that issue, but it seems like a stretch to call the issue a
> CreativeWork.
>
> However, if we do opt to go with the "Issuance inherits from
> CreativeWork" route, then I would argue that "pagination" should
> simply be added to CreativeWork. (Yes, this leads to movies or
> sculptures with paginations... ah well, maybe it's a flip-book
> animation, or a sculpture made out of numbered pieces of paper!)
>
> One other note on naming: I went with "Issuance" rather than "Issue"
> to avoid claiming the namespace that might also be desired by bug
> trackers or international policy metadata. Those in a position of
> marking up individual issues of a periodical seem likely to be able to
> deal with "Issuance" as a term.
>
> Dan
>
>
>