Re: schema-course-extend: credential or award offered through course.

So there are n combinatorial offers from an Organization for a Course and a
Product.

re: CourseOffering
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schema-course-extend/2016Feb/0019.html

For lookup, denormalizing the earnableCredentials as
Couse[Instance].offersCredential would be an easier query than traversing
through CourseOfferings (or, indeed, Offers for a Course)

On Friday, June 17, 2016, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk> wrote:

>
> On 17/06/2016 02:05, Wes Turner wrote:
>
> offersCredential < http://schema.org/offers ?
>
>
> Yes, some organization may offer a credential, but it's not the course
> that offers it. So offersCredential (as a subtype of offers) would be a
> property of an organization.
>
> The organization offering the credential may not be the same as the
> organization offering the Course.
>
> Phil
>
> http://schema.org/offers
> - d: {AggregateOffer, CreativeWork, Event, Product, Service}
> - r : Offer
>
> offersCredential
> - r: Credential
>
>
> To be really explicit, there may be multiple Offer(s) for a given
> Course/CourseInstance:
> - some courses are "crosslisted" for e.g. Undergrad and Graduate programs
>
> IIUC, there must be an abstract Credential and then a CredentialInstance
> (which, to be reliably signed with e.g PKI or a blockchain, may require
> JSON-LD; because if the whole record isn't signed there are no real
> assurances of record integrity)
>
> CTI, OpenBadges, and other [PKI, blockchain] credentialing implementations
> would then be able to map to schema.org/CredentialInstance (and
> Credential).
>
> Credential > Qualification
> Credential > Certfication
>
> And then maybe CredentialInstance and subclasses (as mixin/composite
> classes to be used in conjunction with Credential) would have the edges to
> actual entities (issuee).
>
> https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/195#issuecomment-223663304
>
> CredentialInstance.credential
> - r: Credential
>
> On Thursday, June 16, 2016, Robby Robson <
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','robby.robson@eduworks.com');>
> robby.robson@eduworks.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','robby.robson@eduworks.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Just a comment on  the term “grantsCredential”
>>
>>
>>
>> Agree that “grants” is a problem. “Related” is better, but loses the
>> semantics. Courses can result in a credential, be evidence for a
>> credential, be required for a credential etc. Having some variety of ways
>> to relate a course to a credential would be more complex but might be
>> useful.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robby Robson
>>
>>
>> *Eduworks *robby.robson@eduworks.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','robby.robson@eduworks.com');>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Phil Barker [mailto:phil.barker@hw.ac.uk]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 16, 2016 7:11 AM
>> *To:* Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','richard.wallis@dataliberate.com');>>
>> *Cc:* public-schema-course-extend@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: schema-course-extend: credential or award offered through
>> course.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16/06/2016 10:10, Richard Wallis wrote:
>>
>> Seeing the somewhat involved discussion around the description of
>> credentials I envisage either the overall Course proposal (V1.0) being
>> delayed by it or; the credential proposals not being addressed fully.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>>
>> Pragmatically I propose that initially the property is defined with a
>> rangeIncludes of Text & URL.  This will provide the initial ability to at
>> least reference credentials.  Following on, a full broad discussion will
>> result in a well thought through proposal for a new Credential [or
>> alternatively named] Type.  Part of that proposal being to extend the range
>> of the Course property to include this new type.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why URL rather than Thing? I would quite like to be able to provide a
>> name and URL.  Also, I don't like the semantics of implying that the
>> student will get a URL at the end of the course!
>>
>>
>> As to the currently proposed Course property name ‘grantsCredential’, we
>> still have the question of if ‘credential’ is a good term.  Even if we
>> agree it is, I have a concern about ‘grants’.   The Course does not
>> *grant* a qualification, that is done by an organisation -
>> completing/passing the course leads to the granting of the associated
>> qualification.
>>
>>
>> Yes, I see your point.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~Richard.
>>
>>
>> Richard Wallis
>>
>> Founder, Data Liberate
>>
>> <http://dataliberate.com>http://dataliberate.com
>>
>> Linkedin:  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis>
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
>>
>> Twitter: @rjw
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16 June 2016 at 09:40, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello all, [apologies if you receive this twice, the message I sent
>> yesterday seems to have disappeared]
>>
>> We have a use case for the schema course extension that user should be
>> able to find a course that offers a qualification the searcher would like
>> to acquire hence a requirement that it must be able to identify the
>> qualification offered to those completing a course, see
>> <http://bit.ly/sce-us2>http://bit.ly/sce-us2 .
>>
>> The current proposal has a grantsCredential property of Course with
>> expected (but undefined) type of Credential see,
>> <http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/grantsCredential>
>> http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/grantsCredential
>>
>> There has been quite an involved discussion on github over the last few
>> weeks around how to describe credentials, starting at
>> <https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/195#issuecomment-220588244>
>> https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/195#issuecomment-220588244
>> The modelling of qualifications, awards, credentials clearly goes beyond
>> the modelling of courses and is being addressed else where (see the git hub
>> conversation for references to Credential Transparency Initiative,
>> OpenBadges, blockchain in credentialling etc.)
>>
>> I would like to gauge opinion on two issues:
>> 1. the name credential is proving problematic as to many it associates
>> with security credential, cryptography, etc. It would be useful to find an
>> alternative.
>>
>> 2. What is the minimum that we need to do in order to deal with the link
>> from Courses to credential/qualification/award offered in such a way that
>> it meets our use case and can be picked up by those looking specifically at
>> educational credentials.
>>
>> Bear in mind Richard Wallis's advice of last week concerning "what should
>> be in Course 1.0" where he advises that fine detail be left for future
>> refinements.
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schema-course-extend/2016Jun/0015.html
>>
>> I am hoping that the answer is something like a property of course called
>> something like grantsCredential or offersEducationalAward which has an
>> expected type text or CreativeWork or a named but otherwise empty subtype
>> of CreativeWork.
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Phil Barker           @philbarker
>> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL      <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>
>> http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>> Heriot-Watt University
>>
>> Ubuntu: http://xkcd.com/456/
>>    not so much an operating system as a learning opportunity.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Phil Barker           @philbarker
>>
>> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL     http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>>
>> Heriot-Watt University
>>
>>
>>
>> Workflow: http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/
>>
>>
> --
> Phil Barker           @philbarker
> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL     http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> Heriot-Watt University
>
> Workflow: http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/
>
>