- From: Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>
- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:02:48 +0100
- To: Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>, Robby Robson <robby.robson@eduworks.com>
- Cc: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>, "public-schema-course-extend@w3.org" <public-schema-course-extend@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <905b1367-e04c-65d2-1c87-bdd7866f72f6@hw.ac.uk>
On 17/06/2016 02:05, Wes Turner wrote:
> offersCredential < http://schema.org/offers ?
>
Yes, some organization may offer a credential, but it's not the course
that offers it. So offersCredential (as a subtype of offers) would be a
property of an organization.
The organization offering the credential may not be the same as the
organization offering the Course.
Phil
> http://schema.org/offers
> - d: {AggregateOffer, CreativeWork, Event, Product, Service}
> - r : Offer
>
> offersCredential
> - r: Credential
>
>
> To be really explicit, there may be multiple Offer(s) for a given
> Course/CourseInstance:
> - some courses are "crosslisted" for e.g. Undergrad and Graduate programs
>
> IIUC, there must be an abstract Credential and then a
> CredentialInstance (which, to be reliably signed with e.g PKI or a
> blockchain, may require JSON-LD; because if the whole record isn't
> signed there are no real assurances of record integrity)
>
> CTI, OpenBadges, and other [PKI, blockchain] credentialing
> implementations would then be able to map to
> schema.org/CredentialInstance <http://schema.org/CredentialInstance>
> (and Credential).
>
> Credential > Qualification
> Credential > Certfication
>
> And then maybe CredentialInstance and subclasses (as mixin/composite
> classes to be used in conjunction with Credential) would have the
> edges to actual entities (issuee).
>
> https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/195#issuecomment-223663304
>
> CredentialInstance.credential
> - r: Credential
>
> On Thursday, June 16, 2016, Robby Robson <robby.robson@eduworks.com
> <mailto:robby.robson@eduworks.com>> wrote:
>
> Just a comment on the term “grantsCredential”
>
> Agree that “grants” is a problem. “Related” is better, but loses
> the semantics. Courses can result in a credential, be evidence for
> a credential, be required for a credential etc. Having some
> variety of ways to relate a course to a credential would be more
> complex but might be useful.
>
> Robby Robson
>
> */Eduworks
> /*robby.robson@eduworks.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','robby.robson@eduworks.com');>
>
> *From:*Phil Barker [mailto:phil.barker@hw.ac.uk
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','phil.barker@hw.ac.uk');>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 16, 2016 7:11 AM
> *To:* Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','richard.wallis@dataliberate.com');>>
> *Cc:* public-schema-course-extend@w3.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','public-schema-course-extend@w3.org');>
> *Subject:* Re: schema-course-extend: credential or award offered
> through course.
>
> On 16/06/2016 10:10, Richard Wallis wrote:
>
> Seeing the somewhat involved discussion around the description
> of credentials I envisage either the overall Course proposal
> (V1.0) being delayed by it or; the credential proposals not
> being addressed fully.
>
> I agree.
>
>
> Pragmatically I propose that initially the property is defined
> with a rangeIncludes of Text & URL. This will provide the
> initial ability to at least reference credentials. Following
> on, a full broad discussion will result in a well thought
> through proposal for a new Credential [or alternatively named]
> Type. Part of that proposal being to extend the range of the
> Course property to include this new type.
>
> Why URL rather than Thing? I would quite like to be able to
> provide a name and URL. Also, I don't like the semantics of
> implying that the student will get a URL at the end of the course!
>
>
> As to the currently proposed Course property name
> ‘grantsCredential’, we still have the question of if
> ‘credential’ is a good term. Even if we agree it is, I have a
> concern about ‘grants’. The Course does not /grant/ a
> qualification, that is done by an organisation -
> completing/passing the course leads to the granting of the
> associated qualification.
>
>
> Yes, I see your point.
>
> Phil
>
>
> ~Richard.
>
>
> Richard Wallis
>
> Founder, Data Liberate
>
> http://dataliberate.com
>
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
>
> Twitter: @rjw
>
> On 16 June 2016 at 09:40, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','phil.barker@hw.ac.uk');>> wrote:
>
>
> Hello all, [apologies if you receive this twice, the
> message I sent yesterday seems to have disappeared]
>
> We have a use case for the schema course extension that
> user should be able to find a course that offers a
> qualification the searcher would like to acquire hence a
> requirement that it must be able to identify the
> qualification offered to those completing a course, see
> http://bit.ly/sce-us2 .
>
> The current proposal has a grantsCredential property of
> Course with expected (but undefined) type of Credential
> see,
> http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/grantsCredential
>
> There has been quite an involved discussion on github over
> the last few weeks around how to describe credentials,
> starting at
> https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/195#issuecomment-220588244
> The modelling of qualifications, awards, credentials
> clearly goes beyond the modelling of courses and is being
> addressed else where (see the git hub conversation for
> references to Credential Transparency Initiative,
> OpenBadges, blockchain in credentialling etc.)
>
> I would like to gauge opinion on two issues:
> 1. the name credential is proving problematic as to many
> it associates with security credential, cryptography, etc.
> It would be useful to find an alternative.
>
> 2. What is the minimum that we need to do in order to deal
> with the link from Courses to
> credential/qualification/award offered in such a way that
> it meets our use case and can be picked up by those
> looking specifically at educational credentials.
>
> Bear in mind Richard Wallis's advice of last week
> concerning "what should be in Course 1.0" where he advises
> that fine detail be left for future refinements.
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schema-course-extend/2016Jun/0015.html
>
>
> I am hoping that the answer is something like a property
> of course called something like grantsCredential or
> offersEducationalAward which has an expected type text or
> CreativeWork or a named but otherwise empty subtype of
> CreativeWork.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> --
> --
> Phil Barker @philbarker
> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> Heriot-Watt University
>
> Ubuntu: http://xkcd.com/456/
> not so much an operating system as a learning opportunity.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Phil Barker @philbarker
>
> LRMI, Cetis, ICBLhttp://people.pjjk.net/phil
>
> Heriot-Watt University
>
>
>
> Workflow:http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/
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>
--
Phil Barker @philbarker
LRMI, Cetis, ICBL http://people.pjjk.net/phil
Heriot-Watt University
Workflow: http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/
Received on Friday, 17 June 2016 09:04:41 UTC