- From: Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>
- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:02:48 +0100
- To: Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>, Robby Robson <robby.robson@eduworks.com>
- Cc: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>, "public-schema-course-extend@w3.org" <public-schema-course-extend@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <905b1367-e04c-65d2-1c87-bdd7866f72f6@hw.ac.uk>
On 17/06/2016 02:05, Wes Turner wrote: > offersCredential < http://schema.org/offers ? > Yes, some organization may offer a credential, but it's not the course that offers it. So offersCredential (as a subtype of offers) would be a property of an organization. The organization offering the credential may not be the same as the organization offering the Course. Phil > http://schema.org/offers > - d: {AggregateOffer, CreativeWork, Event, Product, Service} > - r : Offer > > offersCredential > - r: Credential > > > To be really explicit, there may be multiple Offer(s) for a given > Course/CourseInstance: > - some courses are "crosslisted" for e.g. Undergrad and Graduate programs > > IIUC, there must be an abstract Credential and then a > CredentialInstance (which, to be reliably signed with e.g PKI or a > blockchain, may require JSON-LD; because if the whole record isn't > signed there are no real assurances of record integrity) > > CTI, OpenBadges, and other [PKI, blockchain] credentialing > implementations would then be able to map to > schema.org/CredentialInstance <http://schema.org/CredentialInstance> > (and Credential). > > Credential > Qualification > Credential > Certfication > > And then maybe CredentialInstance and subclasses (as mixin/composite > classes to be used in conjunction with Credential) would have the > edges to actual entities (issuee). > > https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/195#issuecomment-223663304 > > CredentialInstance.credential > - r: Credential > > On Thursday, June 16, 2016, Robby Robson <robby.robson@eduworks.com > <mailto:robby.robson@eduworks.com>> wrote: > > Just a comment on the term “grantsCredential” > > Agree that “grants” is a problem. “Related” is better, but loses > the semantics. Courses can result in a credential, be evidence for > a credential, be required for a credential etc. Having some > variety of ways to relate a course to a credential would be more > complex but might be useful. > > Robby Robson > > */Eduworks > /*robby.robson@eduworks.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','robby.robson@eduworks.com');> > > *From:*Phil Barker [mailto:phil.barker@hw.ac.uk > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','phil.barker@hw.ac.uk');>] > *Sent:* Thursday, June 16, 2016 7:11 AM > *To:* Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','richard.wallis@dataliberate.com');>> > *Cc:* public-schema-course-extend@w3.org > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','public-schema-course-extend@w3.org');> > *Subject:* Re: schema-course-extend: credential or award offered > through course. > > On 16/06/2016 10:10, Richard Wallis wrote: > > Seeing the somewhat involved discussion around the description > of credentials I envisage either the overall Course proposal > (V1.0) being delayed by it or; the credential proposals not > being addressed fully. > > I agree. > > > Pragmatically I propose that initially the property is defined > with a rangeIncludes of Text & URL. This will provide the > initial ability to at least reference credentials. Following > on, a full broad discussion will result in a well thought > through proposal for a new Credential [or alternatively named] > Type. Part of that proposal being to extend the range of the > Course property to include this new type. > > Why URL rather than Thing? I would quite like to be able to > provide a name and URL. Also, I don't like the semantics of > implying that the student will get a URL at the end of the course! > > > As to the currently proposed Course property name > ‘grantsCredential’, we still have the question of if > ‘credential’ is a good term. Even if we agree it is, I have a > concern about ‘grants’. The Course does not /grant/ a > qualification, that is done by an organisation - > completing/passing the course leads to the granting of the > associated qualification. > > > Yes, I see your point. > > Phil > > > ~Richard. > > > Richard Wallis > > Founder, Data Liberate > > http://dataliberate.com > > Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis > > Twitter: @rjw > > On 16 June 2016 at 09:40, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','phil.barker@hw.ac.uk');>> wrote: > > > Hello all, [apologies if you receive this twice, the > message I sent yesterday seems to have disappeared] > > We have a use case for the schema course extension that > user should be able to find a course that offers a > qualification the searcher would like to acquire hence a > requirement that it must be able to identify the > qualification offered to those completing a course, see > http://bit.ly/sce-us2 . > > The current proposal has a grantsCredential property of > Course with expected (but undefined) type of Credential > see, > http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/grantsCredential > > There has been quite an involved discussion on github over > the last few weeks around how to describe credentials, > starting at > https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/195#issuecomment-220588244 > The modelling of qualifications, awards, credentials > clearly goes beyond the modelling of courses and is being > addressed else where (see the git hub conversation for > references to Credential Transparency Initiative, > OpenBadges, blockchain in credentialling etc.) > > I would like to gauge opinion on two issues: > 1. the name credential is proving problematic as to many > it associates with security credential, cryptography, etc. > It would be useful to find an alternative. > > 2. What is the minimum that we need to do in order to deal > with the link from Courses to > credential/qualification/award offered in such a way that > it meets our use case and can be picked up by those > looking specifically at educational credentials. > > Bear in mind Richard Wallis's advice of last week > concerning "what should be in Course 1.0" where he advises > that fine detail be left for future refinements. > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schema-course-extend/2016Jun/0015.html > > > I am hoping that the answer is something like a property > of course called something like grantsCredential or > offersEducationalAward which has an expected type text or > CreativeWork or a named but otherwise empty subtype of > CreativeWork. > > > Phil > > > -- > -- > Phil Barker @philbarker > LRMI, Cetis, ICBL http://people.pjjk.net/phil > Heriot-Watt University > > Ubuntu: http://xkcd.com/456/ > not so much an operating system as a learning opportunity. > > > > -- > > Phil Barker @philbarker > > LRMI, Cetis, ICBLhttp://people.pjjk.net/phil > > Heriot-Watt University > > > > Workflow:http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/ > <http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/%7Ephilb/workflow/> > -- Phil Barker @philbarker LRMI, Cetis, ICBL http://people.pjjk.net/phil Heriot-Watt University Workflow: http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/
Received on Friday, 17 June 2016 09:04:41 UTC