Re: schema-course-extend: credential or award offered through course.

I am not convinced that there is consensus on whether or not Credential 
is too broad a term to use as the name for this type, or on how 
Educational Credentials might relate to other forms of Credentials. That 
is a discussion which seems to go beyond education, let alone beyond 
courses.

I am convinced that there has not been adequate discussion with the 
right people in order to address whether the model of Credential you 
point to is the right one.

I am not saying that these should not be done, just that I think they 
should not be done by us now.

Phil

On 18/08/2016 16:02, Wes Turner wrote:
> -1
>
> A range of { Text, Thing } is a disservice
>
> https://pending.schema.org/Credential
>
> Thing > CreativeWork > Credential
>
> - Issue: 
> https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/195#issuecomment-227852385
> - Src: 
> https://github.com/westurner/schemaorg/commit/1f268fc1d1e85b7ebd205d136745289a919c9a34
>
> One could instead model the type of Credential as a property instead 
> of a subclass, but then it wouldn't be possible to define additional 
> properties for specific types of Credentials.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 18, 2016, Richard Wallis <rjw@dataliberate.com 
> <mailto:rjw@dataliberate.com>> wrote:
>
>     +1
>
>     ~Richard
>
>
>     > On 18 Aug 2016, at 14:18, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk
>     <javascript:;>> wrote:
>     >
>     > Hello all, one last call for feedback on this (sorry I left it
>     hanging earlier in the summer, if you really have the time you can
>     review the discussion at
>     https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schema-course-extend/2016Jun/0019.html
>     <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schema-course-extend/2016Jun/0019.html>
>     )
>     >
>     > In short I propose:
>     >
>     > 1. that we provide a property of course which can be used to
>     point to an educational credential that may be available to those
>     who complete a course.
>     >
>     > 2. that the expected type for this property be Text or Thing
>     until such time as a specific model for educational credentials be
>     created
>     >
>     > 3.  that we do not attempt to model educational credentials as
>     part of this work.
>     >
>     > It is on point 3 that I would most welcome feedback.
>     >
>     > See
>     http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/educationalCredentialAwarded
>     <http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/educationalCredentialAwarded>
>     for details
>     >
>     > Brief Rational: the ability to provide a name and a URI for and
>     educational credential which may be obtained by successful
>     completion of the course is enough fulfil the use case requirement
>     of being able to find courses that offer some specific
>     requirement; modelling educational credentials would divert us
>     from completing what is necessary to fulfil the other use cases;
>     and, educational credentials touch on many communities that are
>     not well represented in this group.
>     >
>     > Comments / feedback / dissent?
>     >
>     > Phil
>     >
>     >
>     >> On 22/06/2016 11:20, Phil Barker wrote:
>     >>
>     >> I have drafted a description and a couple of examples based on
>     the proposal below.
>     >>
>     >> See wiki
>     >>
>     https://www.w3.org/community/schema-course-extend/wiki/Identifying_the_qualification_offered
>     <https://www.w3.org/community/schema-course-extend/wiki/Identifying_the_qualification_offered>
>     >>
>     >> and test course.schema site
>     >> http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/Course
>     <http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/Course>
>     >>
>     http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/educationalCredentialAwarded
>     <http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/educationalCredentialAwarded>
>     >>
>     >> Any further comments/amendments?
>     >>
>     >> Phil
>     >>
>     >>> On 20/06/16 14:05, Phil Barker wrote:
>     >>> OK. As property name I am going to suggest
>     educationalCredentialAwarded because we might in the future want
>     EducationalCredential as a class name.
>     >>>
>     >>> So, my proposal is that in order to meet the use case that
>     people can search for courses that offers a qualification the
>     searcher would like to acquire we create a new property
>     >>>
>     >>> educationalCredentialAwarded domain Course, range Text or Thing.
>     >>> Definition: a description of the qualification, award,
>     certificate, diploma or other educational credential awarded as a
>     consequence of successful completion of this course.
>     >>>
>     >>> When the educational credentials/verifiable claims community
>     have sorted out how they want to describe their domain in
>     schema.org <http://schema.org> then I hope we will have some more
>     specific schema type(s) that we can point to, but for now this
>     seems to me to be good enough to solve the use case. Solving the
>     bigger issue seems beyond the scope of this community group.
>     >>>
>     >>> Phil
>     >
>     > --
>     > Phil Barker           @philbarker
>     > LRMI, Cetis, ICBL http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>     > Heriot-Watt University
>     >
>     > Workflow: http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/
>     <http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/%7Ephilb/workflow/>
>     >
>     >
>

-- 
Phil Barker           @philbarker
LRMI, Cetis, ICBL     http://people.pjjk.net/phil
Heriot-Watt University

Workflow: http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/