- From: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 20:38:37 -0500
- To: Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>
- Cc: Andy Seaborne <andy.seaborne@epimorphics.com>, RDF-WG <public-rdf-wg@w3.org>
On May 29, 2012, at 7:41 PM, Sandro Hawke wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-05-16 at 17:33 +0100, Andy Seaborne wrote:
>> 1/ Scenario:
>>
>> A site publishes a page, in RDFa, with triples in it.
>>
>> The site replaces that page, with one saying, "changes in progress,
>> please come back later" with no triples.
>>
>> Recording this seems like a reason to have empty named graphs.
>
> I agree it's useful, I just don't know how to make it work with
> partial-graph semantics. See "subset semantics" in recent message,
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0650.html
>
> If
> <g1> { }
> and
> <g1> { :a :b :c }
> entails
> <g1> { :a :b :c }
>
> then information was the first graph conveying? I think it was
> conveying that <g1> had at least no triples, which isn't conveying much
> at all.
Right. Semantically, an empty graph is an empty conjunction, which is trivially true. So it amounts to a kind of RDF tautology. And a tautology, indeed, conveys no information, when asserted. Still, it isnt incohwerent, just kind of dim.
Pat
>
> I think this use case could be addressed with a vocabulary instead of
> syntax, as you suggest I think for dealing with quadstores. That is,
> instead of allowing in a dataset:
>
> <g> { }
>
> we could put in the default graph something like:
>
> <g> a rdf:EmptyResource.
>
> It's certainly not as elegant, though. (and not compatible with
> existing SPARQL systems.)
>
> Oh. I guess with partial-graph semantics (aka subset semantics) one
> could also make it complete with a count of the triples. So
>
> <g> { :a :b 1,2,3 }.
> <g> rdf:tripleCount 3.
>
> would tell us <g> has those three triples and ONLY those three triples.
> With that, the complete-graph-semantics dataset:
>
> <g> { }
>
> could be conveyed by the partial-graph-semantics dataset:
>
> <g> rdf:tripleCount 0.
>
> Still not elegant, but it might be about as simple as possible.
>
> -- Sandro
>
>
>> 2/ The default graph can be empty.
>>
>> 3/ A point made has been that N-quads can't represent an empty named graph.
>>
>> A syntax fix could be:
>>
>> _ <http://space> .
>>
>> or other style indicate a space name.
>>
>>
>> To my reading, the spaces document works if "quads" are removed, not
>> that I'm suggesting that.
>>
>> How about defining as a convenience of useful vocabulary rather than
>> core definition?
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Wednesday, 30 May 2012 01:39:11 UTC