- From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:25:02 -0500
- To: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
- Cc: public-swd-wg@w3.org
The record of today's RDFa Task Force telecon is now available:
http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html
A text snapshot follows.
----
RDF in XHTML 1.0 Task Force
08 Jan 2009
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jan/0022.html
See also: [3]IRC log, previous 2008-12-18
[3] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-irc
Attendees
Present
Ralph Swick, Michael Hausenblas, Manu Sporny, Shane McCarron,
Ben Adida
Regrets
Chair
Ben Adida
Scribe
Manu Sporny
Contents
* Topics
1. RDFa NS URL
2. Action Items
3. Test Cases
4. comment from december about test suite:
5. keyword bundles and HTML4-compatible RDFa
* Summary of Action Items
_____________________________________________________
RDFa NS URL
<ShaneM> we do not use that namespac
<ShaneM> it is pointed to from the xhtml namespace document
Ralph: It is up there, somewhere - the XHTML namespace document
points to it.
... Where is [11]http://www.w3.org/ns/rdfa/ used?
[11] http://www.w3.org/ns/rdfa/
ShaneM: It shouldn't be circulating, nothing should point to it.
<ShaneM> [12]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/
[12] http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/
<benadida> [13]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/Overview.xhtml
[13] http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/Overview.xhtml
<benadida> (2 days younger)
<benadida> [14]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt
[14] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt
ShaneM: Ralph/Steven or I will fix this.
... The contents of both those documents should be exactly the same.
<ShaneM> ACTION: fix the .htaccess for the XHTML namespace [recorded
in [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
Action Items
<benadida> action items -->
[16]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary
[16] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary
ACTION: Mark to review reasoning on setting explicit about="" on
HEAD and BODY [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-rdfa-irc] [CONTINUES]
[17] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-rdfa-irc
ACTION: Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think of
slightly improved top-level organization [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[CONTINUES]
[18] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa" with
screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[CONTINUES]
[19] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI
is set up. [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
[CONTINUES]
[20] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03
ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece
[recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
[CONTINUES]
[21] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04
ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan.
[recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[CONTINUES]
[22] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[CONTINUES]
[23] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[CONTINUES]
[24] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[CONTINUES]
[25] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[CONTINUES]
[26] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded
in [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[CONTINUES]
[27] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14
<mhausenblas> [28]http://semanticweb.org/wiki/Microformats_in_RDF
[28] http://semanticweb.org/wiki/Microformats_in_RDF
Manu:2 parts
... part 2 is "If I've already setup my page to use hCard, how do I
switch to RDFa?"
Michael: split it into two parts (how and differences)
Manu: Perhaps we need something that shows general differences
between uF and RDFa, and then gives specific examples.
ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[CONTINUES]
[29] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15
Test Cases
<msporny> [30]public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jan/0016.html Test Case
#121: "[prefix:]" CURIE format is valid
[30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jan/0016.html
Manu: the issue tested here is with suffix-less CURIEs, e.g.
"example:"
... CURIE still expands, empty-string as suffix.
<Ralph> +1
<mhausenblas> +1
<ShaneM> +1
RESOLUTION: test case 121 suffix-less CURIE approved
<msporny>
[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009J
an/0017.html Test Case #122: "[:]" CURIE format is valid
[31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jan/0017.html
<mhausenblas> +1
<Ralph> +1
<benadida> +1
<ShaneM> +1
<markbirbeck> +1
<msporny> +1
RESOLUTION: test case 122 prefix and suffix-less CURIE [:] approved
<msporny> [32]public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jan/0018.html Test Case
#123: "[]" is a valid safe CURIE
[32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jan/0018.html
<mhausenblas> [33]public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jan/0026.html
[33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jan/0026.html
<msporny> about="[foo]"
Manu: the current consensus is that the subject is
[34]http://example.org/
[34] http://example.org/
<msporny> about="[]"
Manu: "[foo]" is an invalid CURIE, therefore so should be the empty
string
... as neither is in the reserved (XHTML) list
<msporny> # the mapping to use when there is no prefix is not
defined, which effectively prohibits the use of CURIEs that do not
contain a colon;
Ben: did we define CURIES to require a prefix in RDFa?
Mark: yes
... wasn't my preference, but it was a long discussion
Ben: considering consistency w.r.t. reserved words
... this is the first instance where an invalid value actually
changes the structure
Mark: and Ivan pointed out the same thing occurs with @about="[foo]"
Shane: right; @about="[foo]" should not change the subject
Ben: but the presence of @rel alters the graph structure even if the
CURIE is not valid
... however in this case it's acting as if @about was not present
... however, since @about just changes the subject and doesn't by
itself generates triples, maybe this is OK
Mark: it's clear that this is the current spec. We could discuss
whether this is the most desireable choice.
Ben: so if it's not a valid CURIE value, the behavior is as if
@about were not there
Mark: the alternative discussed was to assume the invalid CURIE was
in the local document namespace
... and we liked that less
Ben: the discussion is about the subject; some triple has to be
generated, and the spec is clear
Mark: however, as you note @rel="[foo]" does do some work
Ben: rephrasing, what is the alternative when an invalid CURIE is
found?
... it would seem wrong to drop the triple entirely
... whereas it's more reasonable to drop the triple in @rel="[foo]"
... so I don't see a better alternative for @about="[foo]" without
major changes to CURIE
... I'm satisfied with this conclusion
Mark: the test case seems to be unnecessarily nested
Manu: yeah, probably; it went through several iterations
Mark: the middle DIV could probably be dropped
... you only need the first one
Manu: yeah, it appears the <div about="[35]http://example.org/">
could be dropped
... the correct SPARQL should be ...
[35] http://example.org/
Shane: do you agree, Mark, that the same rules apply to @resource,
@href, @src?
Ben: only @resource uses SafeCURIE
<msporny> Here's the updated case:
Shane: assuming that it is possible to create an illegal URI then
the general rule would hold that an illegal URI is ignored
Mark: yeah
Shane: @href and @src?
<msporny> ---------------------Test Case 123
XHTML--------------------------
<msporny> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<msporny> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML+RDFa 1.0//EN"
<msporny> "[36]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/DTD/xhtml-rdfa-1.dtd">
[36] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/DTD/xhtml-rdfa-1.dtd
<msporny> <html xmlns="[37]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
[37] http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml
<msporny> xmlns:dc="[38]http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">
[38] http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/
<msporny> <head>
<msporny> <title>Test Case 0123</title>
<msporny> </head>
<msporny> <body>
<msporny> <p about="[39]http://example.org/">
[39] http://example.org/
<msporny> <span about="[]" property="dc:title">Test Case 0123</span>
<msporny> checks to make sure RDFa processors resolve the empty
<msporny> CURIE correctly.
<msporny> <div resource="[]">
<msporny> <span property="dc:contributor">Shane McCarron</span>
<msporny> contributed to this test.
<msporny> </div>
<msporny> </p>
<msporny> </body>
<msporny> </html>
<msporny>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
<msporny> ---------------------Test Case 123 SPARQL
-----------------------
<msporny> ASK WHERE {
<msporny> <[40]http://example.org/>
[40] http://example.org/%3E
<msporny> <[41]http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/title>
[41] http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/title%3E
<msporny> "Test Case 0123" .
<msporny> <[42]http://example.org/>
[42] http://example.org/%3E
<msporny> <[43]http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/contributor>
[43] http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/contributor%3E
<msporny> "Shane McCarron" .
<msporny> }
<msporny>
----------------------------------------------------------------
Shane: @href and @src are evaluated the same way
<msporny> +1
<markbirbeck> +1
Ben: +1
<mhausenblas> +1
RESOLUTION: test case 123 with [] invalid CURIE approved
<ShaneM> +1
<Ralph> +1, though recommend changing the SPAN content to give a
semantically less confusing title
ACTION: Manu to create TC to test @resource="[]" does not set object
based on TC 123. [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
comment from december about test suite:
ACTION: Manu to look at
[45]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008D
ec/0037.html [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[45] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Dec/0037.html
Manu: Didn't have time to look at it in depth.
<benadida> consensus from dec 4th:
<benadida> so I think we have consensus about @prefix='p1=u1 p2=u2
...'
<benadida> ... and that @prefix='=u1' seems not to have value
<benadida> ... and @prefix='u1' may have value and should be further
investigated
<benadida> -->
[47]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-rdfa-minutes.html#item02
[47] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-rdfa-minutes.html#item02
keyword bundles and HTML4-compatible RDFa
benadida: We agree that there needs to be some non-xml based
approach to declare namespaces. Should it be called @prefix?
... We need to make that decision.
... We should confirm the idea that a "with" statement is not
useful. We drop the idea of @prefix="=u1".
... If we want to provide bundles, are they bundles of reserved
words, or more involved transformations.
markbirbeck: I don't think we finalized whether the syntax within
the attribute is "a=b" or "a:b" or something else.
... If it is some sort of transformation, it would be a set of
transformations defined using RDF.
... Fresnel is one example of this approach.
... Transformations are out of scope in a way, we don't need to
overload the RDFa parsing algorithm.
benadida: Do you have a draft of your deeper thoughts about this
issue?
markbirbeck: I'm a bit weary of discussing this off-list, prefer to
have the discussion in the public.
... We're keen to address the issue
benadida: I agree.
markbirbeck: I like "keyword bundle"
benadida: It would be good to see how all this stuff plays together.
ShaneM: These should be two separate topics. @prefix is one, keyword
bundles is the other.
benadida: Any other decisions that we need to make that are missing?
markbirbeck: there isn't any particular reason that we couldn't end
up with two more attributes.
... We could agree on @prefix and get that done.
... @token and keyword bundles could use another attribute.
... and it could come later.
<ShaneM> oooh - we could introduce curie-xxx attributes just to
irritate people in the tag (that was sarcasm!)
@token would be used to specify these values at run-time.
server-curie-xx
benadida: We do have a proposal on the table for @prefix,
prefix="p1=u1 p2=u2"
markbirbeck: There are some benefits to have @prefix in the HEAD -
it could be argued that it should apply in the BODY.
ShaneM: Didn't we talk about using LINK to specify that?
markbirbeck: Yes, or we could extend it in some other way - a new
element or attribute.
<ShaneM> I agree that having prefix / keyword bundles in the head
that apply to the entire document makes sense.
Ben: regrets for 22 Jan
... next meeting: 22 Jan
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: fix the .htaccess for the XHTML namespace [recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Manu to create TC to test @resource="[]" does not set
object based on TC 123. [recorded in
[49]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[NEW] ACTION: Manu to look at
[50]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008D
ec/0037.html [recorded in
[51]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[50] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Dec/0037.html
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think
of slightly improved top-level organization [recorded in
[52]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa"
with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [recorded
in [53]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once
the NS URI is set up. [recorded in
[54]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot
piece [recorded in
[55]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases
for Ivan. [recorded in
[56]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded
in [57]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
[recorded in
[58]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark to review reasoning on setting explicit
about="" on HEAD and BODY [recorded in
[59]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-rdfa-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff
[recorded in
[60]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
[61]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
[recorded in
[62]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
[63]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[52] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
[53] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[54] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03
[55] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04
[56] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
[57] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
[58] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[59] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-rdfa-irc
[60] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
[61] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
[62] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14
[63] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15
[End of minutes]
_____________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:26:14 UTC