- From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 12:47:55 -0400
- To: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
- Cc: public-swd-wg@w3.org
The record of today's RDF-in-XHTML telecon [1] is available.
[1] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-rdfa-minutes.html
A text snapshot follows for tracker.
----
RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
15 May 2008
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008May/0116.html
See also: [3]IRC log, previous [4]2008-05-08
[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-rdfa-irc
[4] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html
Attendees
Present
Ralph Swick, Manu Sporny, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton
Regrets
Ben Adida, Mark Birbeck, Simone Onofri, Michael Hausenblas
Chair
Manu
Scribe
Ralph
Contents
* Topics
1. On Hold Test Case Review
o test 4; xml:base
o test 17; Related blanknodes
o test 28; @xml:lang and @datatype
o test 39 @rev - @src/@href test
o test 40; @rev - @src/@resource test
o test 42; omitted @about
o test 43; @src/@href test with omitted @about
2. Unreviewed Tests
o test 95; No triples with two nested @rel
o test 104; rdf:value
o test 105; inner @rel neither CURIE nor LinkType
o test 107; plain literal with datatype=""
o test 108; plain literal with datatype="" and
xml:langpreservation
o test 109; xml:base should be ignored
* Summary of Action Items
_____________________________________________________
<Steven> There is a national ADSL breakdown here (3 days long
alread), so the only internet connection I have is via the same
mobile phone I will be phoning in on
<Steven> so expect poor sound
<msporny> no chance you're going to be able to see Test Cases to
review them, then, Steven?
<Steven> I'll try
<Steven> As soon as I hit a link, the sound quality deteriorates
Shane: I raised [22]issue-120 and I believe it's [easy to] close
[22] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/120
<msporny> [23]ActionSummary
[23] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary
ACTION: [DONE] Manu to e-mail final Christian Hoertnagl response.
[recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[24] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
ACTION: [DONE] Manu to review current on hold test cases and e-mail
list on what we should do with them. [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[25] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
ACTION: Michael to determine which useless-triples test cases to
remove and which to add. [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[CONTINUES]
[26] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
ACTION: Manu to reach out to Slashdot and attempt to get RDFa
integrated into Slashdot. [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[CONTINUES]
[27] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10
Manu: I've sent email, awaiting a response
ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform
transferred to W3C [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[CONTINUES]
[28] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01
Manu: it's in progress
ACTION: [DONE] Ben to respond to issue 87 [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[29] http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
Shane: [30]issue 87 is closed
[30] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/87
ACTION: Mark to move _:a bnode notation to normative section
[recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2008/04/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
[CONTINUES]
[31] http://www.w3.org/2008/04/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action05
ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded
in [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[CONTINUES]
[32] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
On Hold Test Case Review
<msporny> "[33]Resolving ON HOLD Test Cases"
[33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008May/0084.html
-- test 4; xml:base
Manu: we don't process xml:base, so I suggest we reject test 4
<msporny> [34]rdfa-test-harness
[34] http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/
PROPOSE to reject test #4
<ShaneM> +1
RESOLUTION: to reject test #4 xml:base
-- test 17; Related blanknodes
Manu: I suggest we rewrite test 17 to cover explicit bnode
relationships
<msporny> "[35]Test Case #17 (v2): specifying named bnode
relationships"
[35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008May/0096.html
Manu: note that the SPARQL intentionally uses different bnode names
just to insure that the implementation didn't hardcode the names
PROPOSE to replace test 17 with [36]2008May/0096.html
[36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008May/0096.html
Shane: this is the case that Mark's action refers to
... to take some non-normative text about bnodes and CURIEs and make
it normative
... I just talked with Mark and am preparing to fix the spec now
<ShaneM> I think the new test case is fine.
<Ralph> +1 to proposal
<Steven> +1
RESOLVED to replace test 17
with[37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2
008May/0096.html
[37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008May/0096.html
RESOLVED test 17 approved
per[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/20
08May/0096.html
[38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008May/0096.html
-- test 28; @xml:lang and @datatype
PROPOSE to reject test 28 @xml:lang and @datatype
<ShaneM> +1
RESOLVED to reject test 28 @xml:lang and @datatype
Manu: tests 107 and 108 replace 28
-- test 39 @rev - @src/@href test
Manu: this passes Ivan's parser and my parser
... this test checks that implmentations don't use @href to override
@src
<ShaneM> looks good.
<Steven> is there a similar test for @resource?
<ShaneM> yes its next
Ralph: looks good to me
<Steven> good
RESOLUTION: test 39 approved
-- test 40; @rev - @src/@resource test
<ShaneM> that one seems fine too.
Manu: 40 similar to 39, checking that @resource doesn't override
@src
... I'm not sure this one is correct
... if we're checking that @resource doesn't override @src then we
shouldn't use @about
... if we remove @about then the SPARQL uses the @src value
<msporny> <img src="[39]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg"
[39] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg
<msporny> rev="foaf:depicts"
<msporny> resource="[40]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg"
[40] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg
<msporny> alt="A photo depicting Michael" />
<msporny> ASK WHERE {
<msporny> <[41]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg>
<[42]http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/depicts>
<[43]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg> .
[41] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg%3E
[42] http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/depicts%3E
[43] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg%3E
Ralph: I believe this is a more useful test but the semantics are
wrong (for foaf:depicts) now
Manu: foaf:alternate?
<Steven> Can't you use depicts for a photo within a photo?
Manu: ??:alternate ?
<Steven> html:alternate
Shane: the definition of html:alternate isn't quite right for this
Manu: html:next works
<msporny> }
<msporny> <img src="[44]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg"
[44] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg
<msporny> rev="previous"
<msporny> resource="[45]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg"
[45] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg
<msporny> alt="A photo depicting Michael" />
<ShaneM> I think we should change the definition of "alternate" in
our vocabulary for what its worth. This is dumb - "alternate
designates alternate versions for the document."
<msporny> ASK WHERE {
<msporny> <[46]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg>
<[47]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#previous>
<[48]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg> .
[46] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg%3E
[47] http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#previous%3E
[48] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg%3E
<msporny> }
<Steven>
[49]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/15/22341209_48084a909b.jpg?v=0
[49] http://farm1.static.flickr.com/15/22341209_48084a909b.jpg?v=0
Ralph: foaf:thumbnail ?
Manu: these two particular images are different; one isn't a
thumbnail of the other
Shane: html:alternate is fine, as is html:next
<msporny> <img src="[50]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg"
[50] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg
<msporny> rev="alternate"
<msporny> resource="[51]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg"
[51] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg
<msporny> alt="A photo depicting Michael" />
<msporny> ASK WHERE {
<msporny> <[52]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg>
<[53]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#alternate>
<[54]http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg> .
[52] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg%3E
[53] http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#alternate%3E
[54] http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg%3E
<msporny> }
<Ralph> +1 to html:alternate
<Steven> [55]22341209_48084a909b.jpg foaf:depicts
[56]06-steven-goteborg/guido.jpg
[55] http://farm1.static.flickr.com/15/22341209_48084a909b.jpg
[56] http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/06-steven-goteborg/guido.jpg
PROPOSE: change test 40 to drop @about and use html:alternate
<Steven> +1
RESOLUTION: test 40 approved after changes to drop @about and use
html:alternate
-- test 42; omitted @about
Manu: the SPARQL in the test harness is still wrong
... no triples should be generated
... this should be turned into a negative test
... testing that @src is not a target
... this was a change to our processing rules
Ralph: I agree; no triples should be generated
PROPOSED: test 42 approved after changing to a negative test and
removing triples from the SPARQL
RESOLUTION: test 42 approved after changing to a negative test and
removing triples from the SPARQL
-- test 43; @src/@href test with omitted @about
<msporny> Test #43: REJECT Duplicates TC#34, TC#35, and TC#90
<msporny> Test #44: REJECT Duplicates TC#32, TC#37, and TC#40
<msporny> Test #45: REJECT Duplicates TC#32, TC#36, TC#37
<ShaneM> +1
Manu: 43, 44, and 45 are obsoleted by 34, 35, 90; 32, 37, 40; 32,
36, 37
Ralph: I trust you
<Steven> +1
RESOLUTION: tests 43, 44, and 45 dropped
<ShaneM> updated vocab document is at [57]xhtml-vocab-20080515.html
- Ralph, can you please install it in /1999/xhtml/vocab as
appropriate?
[57] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/xhtml-vocab-20080515.html
Unreviewed Tests
-- test 95; No triples with two nested @rel
Manu: I think tests 95, 96, and 97 should be rejected
... we changed the processing rules to retain "useless" triples
... so these tests are obsolete
PROPOSE: reject tests 95, 96, 97
<ShaneM> +1
<Steven> +1
RESOLUTION: reject tests 95, 96, 97
-- test 104; rdf:value
Manu: the objective of 104 is to have an example of a value with a
unit
Ralph: this doesn't really test anything new about RDFa; it's more
demonstrating a use case
Manu: whomever raised this was concerned specifically about
rdf:value
Ralph: I don't mind duplicate tests
<Steven> where is 104?
<Steven> Oh found it
<Ralph> +1
<Steven> +1
<ShaneM> Harmless - +1
RESOLUTION: test 104 approved
-- test 105; inner @rel neither CURIE nor LinkType
Manu: the point in test 105 is that the inner @rel doesn't chain
because "myfoobarrel" isn't a valid CURIE
Shane: mmmmm
... there was a private discussion about issue 120 that resolved
this
... Mark has changed the editor's draft
... I'm not sure if the current interpretation matches 105
Ralph: propose to passover 105
Shane: passover 106 too
-- test 107; plain literal with datatype=""
Manu: 107 is to replace test a test we rejected
... test 28 (rejected)
... test 107 tests that whitespace is preserved
... both Ivan's parser and mine pass 107
Ralph: looks good to me
... do we believe all the N3 and RDF/XML variants of these tests?
<ShaneM> +1
Manu: all the N3 comes from Ivan's parser, so if Ivan's parser
passes the test then the N3 is OK. But for now, continue to ignore
the N3 and RDF/XML
<Steven> +1
RESOLUTION: test 107 approved
-- test 108; plain literal with datatype="" and xml:lang preservation
Manu: I believe there's an error in the SPARQL for test 108
... I believe @el is missing from the end of the SPARQL
Ralph: yep, SPARQL should preserve the lang too
PROPOSE: accept test 108 correcting the SPARQL to specify the
language
<ShaneM> +1 with changing sparql to include @el
RESOLUTION: accept test 108 correcting the SPARQL to specify the
language
-- test 109; xml:base should be ignored
-> "[58]Test Case #109: xml:base should be ignored in XHTML+RDFa
1.0" [Manu 2008-05-13]
[58] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008May/0112.html
Shane: Michael's question was "should invalid markup generate any
triples?"
<msporny> [59]Michael's reply
[59] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008May/0115.html
Shane: the answer should be 'no'
Manu: we don't have a way to test invalid markup
Shane: parsers are likely to generate triples when they don't
validate the input
<msporny> ?
Shane: I think it's fine to include the test
... looking at the specifics;
... @xml:base on the root and on the div
Manu: we're trying to test that @xml:base is ignored and the @about
value is the subject
Shane: we're insuring parsers ignore @xml:base
Shane: we have another test for @base
<msporny> [ TEST ] Test #72 (approved): Relative URI in @about (with
XHTML base in head)
<msporny> [ TEST ] Test #73 (approved): Relative URI in @resource
(with XHTML base in head)
<msporny> [ TEST ] Test #74 (approved): Relative URI in @href (with
XHTML base in head)
Ralph: I fall on the side of the concern that Michael is expressing
... we don't specify behavior for invalid input
Manu: this question about @xml:base has been raised on the list
several times
... realistically, a lot of parsers will deal with invalid XHTML
Ralph: how about we add a big XML comment saying this isn't valid
XHTML
Shane: I'm not offended by the current form, a comment is fine
PROPOSE: to accept test 109 with an added XML comment noting this is
not valid XHTML
<Ralph> +1
<Steven> +1
<ShaneM> +1
RESOLUTION: to accept test 109 with an added XML comment noting this
is not valid XHTML
<ShaneM> PROPOSE: Add a comment to rdfa-syntax that conforming
parsers are NOT required to generate triples from invalid input.
<Ralph> absolutely +1
<Steven> +1
<msporny> +1
Shane: this tacitly encourages document authors to make valid
documents
RESOLUTION: Add a comment to rdfa-syntax that conforming parsers are
NOT required to generate triples from invalid input.
Shane: I'm about to make an updated editor's draft
<Steven> Regrets for next week
[adjourned]
<Steven> I am chairing a conference
Ralph: regrets for next week too
<Ralph> [60]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab is now updated
[60] http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab
<Ralph> Shane, any objection to adding $id$ or $revision$ to the
vocab namespace document?
<Ralph> (a visible version identifier)
Summary of Action Items
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL
transform transferred to W3C [recorded in
[61]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Manu to reach out to Slashdot and attempt to get
RDFa integrated into Slashdot. [recorded in
[62]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark to move _:a bnode notation to normative
section [recorded in
[63]http://www.w3.org/2008/04/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
[recorded in
[64]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to determine which useless-triples test
cases to remove and which to add. [recorded in
[65]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[61] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01
[62] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10
[63] http://www.w3.org/2008/04/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action05
[64] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[65] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to respond to issue 87 [recorded in
[66]http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[DONE] ACTION: Manu to e-mail final Christian Hoertnagl response.
[recorded in
[67]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[DONE] ACTION: Manu to review current on hold test cases and e-mail
list on what we should do with them. [recorded in
[68]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[66] http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
[67] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
[68] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
[End of minutes]
_____________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 15 May 2008 16:49:05 UTC