- From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 15:40:33 -0500
- To: RDF Data Access Working Group <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
- Cc: Jeen Broekstra <jeen@aduna.biz>
hypertext version: http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html
plaintext snapshot follows:
[1]W3C . [2]DAWG
[1] http://www.w3.org/
[2] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess
RDF Data Access Weekly Teleconference
5 Apr 2005
See also: [3]IRC log, [4]proposed agenda
[3] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-irc
[4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0004.html
Attendees
Present
Yoshio, DanC, Kevin, HowardK, PatH, DaveB, Kendall_Clark, JosD,
SteveH
Jeen Broekstra (sender of comments such as [5]more on
optionals) participated as an observer.
[5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Feb/0021.html
Regrets
AndyS, EricP, BryanT
Chair
DanC
Scribe
KendallC
Contents
* [6]Topics
1. [7]Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
2. [8]issue: valueTesting
3. [9]issue: sort
4. [10]punctuationSyntax
5. [11]SPARQL QL publication candidate
6. [12]issue wsdlAbstractProtocol
7. [13]SPARQL Variable Results format
8. [14]Test Suite Maintenance
_________________________________________________________________
Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
<kendall> [15]minutes approved from last week's meeting
[15] http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html
next meeting 12 Apr, DaveB to scribe, risks noted
continued without (much) discussion:
<scribe> ACTION: KendallC to work out remaining details in
sparqlx.{rnc,xsd,rng}: expression syntax, order-by stuff continues
[recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action08]
<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] KendallC to incorporate EricP's privacy
text, salting to taste [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action15]
issue: valueTesting
<scribe> [DONE] ACTION EricP: to propose to close valueTesting (bonus
points for test cases, to EricP or others)
-> [18]11th hour datatype testing proposal
[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0015.html
<kendall> some discussion of some of ericp valuetesting tests...
<DaveB> looking at [19]SPARQL-DT-1-alg.sh
[19] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/perl/modules/W3C/Rdf/test/SPARQL-DT-1-alg.sh?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
<kendall> HowardK been following along a bit on Eric's design
<kendall> (discussion of eric's sparql-dt-0)
<kendall> XQuery makes 42 int and 42 float True (I think? It promotes
the int to float, apparently)
<SteveH> I think this test says that xsd:int(42.0) = 42 is true
<kendall> discussion of 11.1.1 of rq23
<DaveB> it's refering to [20]http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#mapping
[20] http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#mapping
<Zakim> Yoshio, you wanted to ask if a != b is True if no assertion on
a being equal to b or not is provided
<Yoshio> re: Eric's design, a != b should be True
<Yoshio> following fron link on "!" leads to XQuery fn:not, which
would say so
<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to give the "datatype swamp" speech again
<kendall> danc tries to recruit someone to co-present Eric's design w/
Eric
<kendall> ah, Tuscany...
<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to work with EricP to clarify valueTesting
proposal ETA 2 weeks [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action01]
<DaveB> EricP's proposal seems not to refer to
[22]http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#promotion Type Promotion of numeric
types, which seems relevant. and has a typo or two re the 2nd test.
[this is for my information]
[22] http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#promotion
<scribe> ACTION: HowardK to seek clarification on valueTesting w.r.t.
differenced from XQuery [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action02]
issue: sort
<scribe> ACTION: PatH to review sort design [PENDING] [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action10]
not started...
<kendall> iirc, Kowari's itQL has sort
<kendall> Jeen says something about comparing blank nodes and literals
(?)
Jeen: SerQL doesn't does offset/limit but not SORT, yet; due to
requests, we're starting to have a stab at it
<kendall> er, iTQL, I should say.
<kendall> Versa also has sort.
<kendall> how few is "widespread", I wonder
Jos: ORDER BY doesn't make sense with CONSTRUCT
<DaveB> [['Using ORDER BY on a solution sequence for a result form
other than SELECT has no direct effect because only SELECT returns a
sequence of results, not an RDF graph]]
<kendall> order by only applies to SELECt -- we think!
"Using ORDER BY on a solution sequence for a result form other than
SELECT has no direct effect because only SELECT returns a sequence of
results, not an RDF graph. However, in combination with LIMIT and
OFFSET, it can be used to return partial results."
<kendall> So, another proposal discussed where the prime designer or
proponent isn't here. :>
<kendall> tricky
<SteveH> Yoshio, there isn;t a way to do that currently as far as I
know
<bijanp> (Not quite OT, but related, may be helpful, i'm unsure how
reliable or good, but:
[25]http://www.cs.umd.edu/Library/TRs/CS-TR-4611/CS-TR-4611.ps )
[25] http://www.cs.umd.edu/Library/TRs/CS-TR-4611/CS-TR-4611.ps
<Yoshio> Hmm, we do need for that function to show users, for example,
the total number of documents hit
OPTIONS: 2 questions: 1 prefer to adopt this sort design (or something
close) vs prefer to postpone. 2: probably object to postpone / object
to this design or something close
pref this sort design: 1 1 1
pref to postpone: 1 1 1 1
oppose postpone: 1
oppose sort: 1
<kendall> KevinW says that some of the complexity in the sort design
is linked to complexity in other issues
<Yoshio> in sorting we have an arbitrary ordering for the last resort,
though
<kendall> UMD cares more about limit with "next 10" than we do about
sort
<kendall> fwiw
<DaveB> ref [26]http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-dawg-uc/#u2.19
[26] http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-dawg-uc/#u2.19
<kendall> fine-grained parsing of use cases that weren't intended to
read that way
(limit/offset seems like a protocol thing)
<kendall> (er, that's off the record, I should have said!)
<kendall> (limit & offset were originally in teh protocol, but i
removed them at andy's urging, as I recall)
PatH: limit/offset could be done with protocol tokens
<bijan> limit is in the language now, see 10.1
yes, bijan... we're discussing whether that's the design we prefer
<Zakim> Yoshio, you wanted to ask if there is a way (or need for tha
way) to get just the number of the solutions and to say a project next
to me deals with patent search, where user
<bijan> Ah, ok.
<howardk> for those interested, new version of XQuery WD is available
at [27]http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/
[27] http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/
<Yoshio> to ask if "03"^^xsd:integer < "1"^^xsd:integer (lexical form
rule 4.1)
<DaveB> I think, yes it says that in the rq23
<Yoshio> Hmm, horrible, confusing at least
<DaveB> actually I can't tell since those rules may/only apply if
operator:< can't be used
punctuationSyntax
<kendall> There is reification syntax in rq23
<kendall> SteveH: the value of the current syntax is that it's "like"
Turtle; so adding new stuff reduces that value
<Yoshio> yes
<JosD> yes
<kendall> Yo: yes
<DaveB> I'd agree with steve, jos
<scribe> ACTION: DanC to propose to close punctuationSyntax (again)
sans <<reifiction shorthand>> [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
SPARQL QL publication candidate
<scribe> ACTION: [DONE] EricP to notify the WG of editors draft (or
change of plans) [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action13]
poll: PROPOSED: to publish [30]SPARQL QL editor's draft 1.290 as a W3C
WD, with editorial and technical TODOs highlighted, with status ala
"the WG is preparing for last call; while we do our internal review,
the community is welcome to comment too."
[30] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/
<kendall> Yoshio, KevinW, HowardK, PatH, Kendall, DaveB, SteveH --
support pub'ing now
<DaveB> I found 2.4, 2.6 confusing in parts. 5.4, 9 defns baffled me.
2.7 & lots need section nos.
<kendall> Jeen does too
<kendall> JosD does by implication :>
<kendall> no one seems opposed to publishing it, more relevantly
<DaveB> (in typo land; 3.1 uri syntax wrong; 4.1 empty; 6.2 dc
namespace urls wrong)
After discussion of if/how to say "we're getting close to last call",
DanC is inclined to do another round internally first.
<scribe> ACTION: PatH to internal review of rq23, starting monday
[recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action04]
<DaveB> reviewing just defns? or all?
KendallC offers to copy-edit, noting it will use all his WG time
<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to review rq23 editor's draft this week
[recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action05]
<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] AndyS to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world
assumption [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action11]
<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] DaveB to consider dots in qnames, report on
impact on turtle [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action12]
<scribe> ACTION: [DROPPED] DanC to review editors draft (delivered 31
Mar) by 5 Mar [recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action14]
issue wsdlAbstractProtocol
-> [36]protocol update
[36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0018.html
KC: I split the WSDL into sparql-protocol-query.wsdl and
sparql-protocol-graph.wsdl
DC is interested in feedback from BT, AFS. KC is confident he can get
it.
<scribe> ACTION: KendallC to own wsdlAbstractProtocol (based on WSDL
description added to protocol to editor's draft). continues [recorded
in [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action07]
SPARQL Variable Results format
<kendall> Has a new name...
DB: I changed the title, since it's more than variable results...
<kendall> what's the new name?
<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment
from Steer continues [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action06]
Test Suite Maintenance
<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve continues
[recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action09]
<scribe> ACTION: SteveH to prepare test cases for publication as WG
Note (no deadline/urgency) [PENDING] [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action19]
<scribe> ACTION: SteveH to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background"
and named graphs [PENDING] [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action20]
<scribe> ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous to
valueTesting test cases) (don't expect quick delivery) [PENDING]
[recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action21]
<scribe> ACTION: AndyS to propose a test re "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe
[PENDING] [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action22]
<scribe> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on
op:dateTime triple [PENDING] [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action23]
<scribe> ACTION: EricP to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test
results page [PENDING] [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action26]
ADJOURN.
_________________________________________________________________
KendallC and DanC for the DAWG $Date: 2005/04/05 20:36:35 $
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [46]scribe.perl version 1.122
[46] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
--
Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541 0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E
Received on Tuesday, 5 April 2005 20:40:34 UTC