- From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 08:07:11 +0200
- To: Bill Kasdorf <bill.kasdorf@w3.org>
- Cc: "Siegman, Tzviya" <tsiegman@wiley.com>, W3C Publishing Steering Committee <public-publishing-sc@w3.org>, Avneesh Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>, George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com>
Bill Kasdorf wrote on 16/10/2023 18:49: > This is fine by me. After my usual enthusiastic response to your > email, Ivan, I had second thoughts anyway about the viability of > continuing the two I commented on. > > I agree with Tzviya's observation that scholarly publishing is bound > to JATS. She's right, JATS4R is the place for any mapping to be done, > not the W3C. And absolutely no subsetting of HTML is appropriate. Even > the new CP/LD standard from NISO specifically uses the always-current > version of HTML with no limitations. > > One observation wrt the mapping issue: this is obviously done > (differently) by all the leading journal hosting platforms. They all > require JATS XML (to their specification) as input, and they all > convert it to HTML for online rendering. It would be interesting to > see how much commonality, or lack thereof, is in those conversions. > But it's not likely any group in the W3C would do this. I do not know that market, its players, etc, but I would not dismiss to do this at W3C. We certainly have the expertise of both XML and HTML... But I am not sure whether (a) there is an interest of harmonization and (b) there are players out there (companies and individuals) that we could reach out to on that subject. I would certainly be interested to move this forward. But that is another matter. I think we all agree that the CG of today is dead. Sniff... Ivan > > --Bill > > On 2023-10-16 12:33, Ivan Herman wrote: >> We have time until tomorrow to decide. >> >> At this moment, my personal opinion is that the only CG that I would >> consider keeping is the synchronized multimedia one. I know that >> Marisa was fairly active for a while and had a draft document in a >> decent state. Avneesh & George, how important is this work from an >> accessibility perspective? >> >> It is unfortunately true that the others have very little activity >> and I don't see any chance to get anything done. See what Tzviya said >> about the scholarly html CG; as for the research objects, some of the >> core researchers at the Uni of Southampton have left for other >> pastures and the focus of the work is now more by NIST. >> >> Ivan >> >> —— >> Ivan Herman >> +33 652 46 00 43 >> >> (Written on my iPad. Excuses for brevity and misspellings...) >> >>> On 16 Oct 2023, at 14:49, Siegman, Tzviya <tsiegman@wiley.com> wrote: >>> >>> I don't think that Scholarly HTML can succeed unless it is mapped >>> to JATS. So, I don't think it's worth continuing this CG. HTML does >>> not need to be subset. RDFa etc is too complex for some publishers >>> and not close enough to JATS for others. I know this sounds >>> pessimistic, but the scholarly world is bound to JATS. If the JATS4R >>> committee is interested in a mapping, this can be accomplished, and >>> I would absolutely make time for it. >>> >>> Tzviya Siegman >>> Information Standards Principal >>> Wiley >>> 201-748-6884 >>> tsiegman@wiley.com >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Kasdorf <bill.kasdorf@w3.org> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 5:13 PM >>> To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> >>> Cc: W3C Publishing Steering Committee <public-publishing-sc@w3.org> >>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Preparing to close some Community Groups; please >>> review by 17 October >>> >>> Thanks for this, Ivan. >>> >>> WRT the Research Object for Scholarly Communication Community Group, >>> that absolutely looks important to the work happening now in the >>> research community, and yes, the new CP/LD format from NISO (not >>> NIST) is definitely relevant. I can't tell if the work of this CG is >>> moribund, but they haven't published anything that I can see. Rob >>> Sanderson, whom I know (or "knew" might be more accurate--he did a >>> lot of work on IIIF when he was at Getty, now at Yale; he may not >>> remember me), is listed as an original co-chair but he's not in the >>> list of participants now. I actually know a lot of people who would >>> probably be interested in this work, but I don't see any of them in >>> the participants list. How do you suggest I proceed on this? Reach >>> out to Rob? Contact the current chair? >>> Let you do some digging first and then let me know what I should do, >>> if anything? It could be just that the original task they set out to >>> address is too amorphous; I can imagine a lot of discussion that >>> never got anywhere. Maybe having something concrete like CP/LD to >>> react to would revive the work. (BTW I'm reviewing the edited MS >>> today of an article I wrote on CP/LD for ISU--the _Information >>> Services and Use_ journal, which publishes articles on NISO >>> events--that might be a starting point, though it is very >>> non-technical, targeted for a general >>> audience.) >>> >>> BTW as for the Scholarly HTML CG, I agree that's important and if >>> Tzviya could be cloned, that might be a solution. I also know people >>> who _should_ be involved in that. One issue: most scholarly >>> _publishers_ (note the italics) are focused on JATS XML (or BITS for >>> books); they then deliver that to their journal host (Atypon, part >>> of Wiley; Silverchair; HighWire; Ingenta; etc.) which actually does >>> the work of converting the JATS XML to HTML. >>> >>> However, as you know I've been talking a lot recently to people in >>> the research community who are absolutely interested in scholarly >>> HTML, especially since preprints have become so important. The arXiv >>> folks, for example, are working on getting accessible HTML for the >>> millions of preprints they have--almost all of which came to them as >>> TeX or LaTex and are now provided as PDFs that have lost almost all >>> the structure that was in the LaTex. They want HTML. Many (actually >>> I think most) of those articles never go on to formal publication as >>> a journal article. >>> That community specifically, as you know, is physics and math. But >>> there is a lot of movement in science in general to get content >>> online (fast and in smaller chunks) and they even talk about >>> breaking free of "the tyranny of the PDF." This is being pushed a >>> lot by the funders of research. So both of these CGs should be of >>> interest to those folks, and there are lots of them. >>> >>> I decided to give you all this info now because you need to answer >>> yea or nay on keeping the CGs open by Tuesday! >>> >>> --Bill >>> >>>> On 2023-10-11 02:36, Ivan Herman wrote: >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> we regularly get these reviews, which is essential in view of the >>>> growing number of CG-s. Here are the CG-s in the list relevant (in my >>>> view) for the publishing activity. We may want to decide whether we'd >>>> ask to keep them alive for now or not. Note that if we decide to ask >>>> for keeping a particular CG alive, we should contact the CG (or the >>>> chairs) to see whether they really want to continue or not. I've >>>> attached my own, initial comments. >>>> >>>> - CSS Print Community Group >>>> (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.w3.org/community/cssprint/__; >>>> !!N11eV2iwtfs!q9_N0G0Tm9zLqscnA3BHuWNvggjO2LqtFYAl-rT68w4TLARc5yJidXjD >>>> 9-VD2fQvEjwtX7XyphoD9oOPdkRh$ ) I remember having seen a reference >>>> lately to this work, but I do not remember when and where. Maybe >>>> one of you do. It would obviously important for publications, I >>>> presume many of the concepts could apply to EPUB rendering... >>>> >>>> - Research Object for Scholarly Communication Community Group >>>> (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.w3.org/community/rosc/__;!!N1 >>>> 1eV2iwtfs!q9_N0G0Tm9zLqscnA3BHuWNvggjO2LqtFYAl-rT68w4TLARc5yJidXjD9-VD >>>> 2fQvEjwtX7XyphoD9u1oTZ-e$ ) I had great hopes for research objects, >>>> which could have radically change scholarly communication. This >>>> research was mostly driven by the U of Southampton but it seemed >>>> that, alas!, this works has wind down. >>>> BillK, this is very close to the NIST work you showed me a while ago, >>>> I wonder whether there is an interest to revive that CG with that work >>>> in mind… >>>> >>>> - Scholarly HTML Community Group >>>> (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.w3.org/community/scholarlyhtm >>>> l/__;!!N11eV2iwtfs!q9_N0G0Tm9zLqscnA3BHuWNvggjO2LqtFYAl-rT68w4TLARc5yJ >>>> idXjD9-VD2fQvEjwtX7XyphoD9g3UVj7c$ ) Tzviya, you are assigned as a >>>> chair… I would like to see this group succeed, but it may be just a >>>> dream. The impression is that the scholarly publishing world is not >>>> interested by any such change... >>>> >>>> - Synchronized Multimedia for Publications Community Group >>>> (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.w3.org/community/sync-media-p >>>> ub/__;!!N11eV2iwtfs!q9_N0G0Tm9zLqscnA3BHuWNvggjO2LqtFYAl-rT68w4TLARc5y >>>> JidXjD9-VD2fQvEjwtX7XyphoD9hPqzNkd$ ) This is the one led by Marisa, >>>> and the idea was to come up with an alternative to SMIL; this was also >>>> briefly discussed in the EPUB WG. I would hate to see this effort >>>> go, but I believe Marisa has no time for this, and I am not sure >>>> there is a real market interest... >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Ivan >>>> >>>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>>> From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org> >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Preparing to close some Community Groups; please review by >>>>> 17 October >>>>> >>>>> Date: October 10, 2023 at 19:57:35 GMT+2 >>>>> >>>>> To: w3t Team <w3t@w3.org>, Shawn Lawton Henry <shawn@w3.org>, >>>>> Marie-Claire Forgue <mcf@w3.org>, Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org> >>>>> >>>>> Resent-From: w3t@w3.org >>>>> >>>>> Archived-At: >>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.w3.org/mid/881E33FF-903C-419 >>>>> 9-A2FD-3920E54E3687@w3.org__;!!N11eV2iwtfs!q9_N0G0Tm9zLqscnA3BHuWNvgg >>>>> jO2LqtFYAl-rT68w4TLARc5yJidXjD9-VD2fQvEjwtX7XyphoD9n7BKYZp$ > >>>>> >>>>> List-Id: <w3t.w3.org> >>>>> >>>>> Message-Id: <881E33FF-903C-4199-A2FD-3920E54E3687@w3.org> >>>>> >>>>> Team, >>>>> (Shawn, see question on WAI-engage) >>>>> (Marie-Claire, see question Chapter-related groups) (François, see >>>>> question on the Web Media API CG) >>>>> >>>>> From time to time (such as in March [1]) we close inactive Community >>>>> Groups. The tool we use to identify candidates recently found 90 >>>>> inactive CGs: >>>>> >>>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/team-co >>>> mmunity-process/2023Oct/0003.html__;!!N11eV2iwtfs!q9_N0G0Tm9zLqscnA3BH >>>> uWNvggjO2LqtFYAl-rT68w4TLARc5yJidXjD9-VD2fQvEjwtX7XyphoD9nOAyyEV$ >>>>> >>>>> If you see any groups in that list that you think should remain open, >>>>> please let us know by 17 October (4pm ET). >>>>> >>>>> SPECIFIC REQUESTS: >>>>> >>>>> * Shawn, in March you wrote "Please leave [WAI-Engage] open until >>>>> October 2023 at least." It seems still to be inactive. What do you >>>>> advise? >>>>> * Marie-Claire, in April you asked that we keep open the Nordic >>>>> Chapter Smart City / Web of Things CG and Nordic Web of Data CG. >>>>> Both appear to be inactive. What do you advise? >>>>> * François, the Web Media API CG appears to be inactive, but we're in >>>>> the process of renewing the MoU with CTA that encompasses their work. >>>>> What do you advise? >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Ian >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/sysreq >>>>> /2023Mar/0080.html__;!!N11eV2iwtfs!q9_N0G0Tm9zLqscnA3BHuWNvggjO2LqtFY >>>>> Al-rT68w4TLARc5yJidXjD9-VD2fQvEjwtX7XyphoD9u898yyH$ >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org> >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/__;!!N11 >>>>> eV2iwtfs!q9_N0G0Tm9zLqscnA3BHuWNvggjO2LqtFYAl-rT68w4TLARc5yJidXjD9-VD >>>>> 2fQvEjwtX7XyphoD9shFXDMQ$ >>>>> Tel: +1 917 450 8783 >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> Ivan Herman, W3C >>>> Home: >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/__;!!N11eV2i >>>> wtfs!q9_N0G0Tm9zLqscnA3BHuWNvggjO2LqtFYAl-rT68w4TLARc5yJidXjD9-VD2fQvE >>>> jwtX7XyphoD9q3VnvxB$ >>>> mobile: +33 6 52 46 00 43 >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and >>> intended only for the person or entity to whom it is addressed. If >>> you are not the intended recipient, any use, review, distribution, >>> reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is >>> strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please >>> immediately notify the sender and permanently delete all copies of >>> the email and any attachments. >>> Click here for translations of this >>> disclaimer.<https://secure.wiley.com/email-disclaimers> >>> ________________________________ > -- Ivan Herman, W3C tel: +33 6 52 46 00 43 home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
Received on Tuesday, 17 October 2023 06:07:21 UTC