- From: Garth Conboy <garth@google.com>
- Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 14:19:03 -0700
- To: Laurent Le Meur <laurent.lemeur@edrlab.org>
- Cc: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, "public-publ-wg@w3.org" <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CADExNBNwNCQsmgp1JeYfbRM-0PNk5WBMCCmHqmhBQdoX+TtdNw@mail.gmail.com>
I made my comment on this topic on the definition thread -- likely matching the opinion of many of the "traditional" publishers in our midst. To me publishing a publication on a publication date, is meaningless if the "primary resources" change thereafter. Best, Garth On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Laurent Le Meur <laurent.lemeur@edrlab.org> wrote: > > It’s about a publication that is changing “on the fly” (with the > understanding of the publisher/author, of course) > > This is where thing may get muddy on the Web. In many cases, nothing will > notify an author that a Web resource he has included in his Web Publication > has changed. *The Web is not a CMS*. It can change suddenly because a > picture embedded in the resource has been modified, because a CSS used by > the resource has been updated (I use indirect modifications, but direct > modifications of an html resource are even more obvious). On the Web > resources are shared, control is shared, an author can't control the detail > of all the resources he's using in a Web Publication. > > So when you say "the understanding" Leonard, I understand "the > understanding that a publication can change on the fly without his > knowledge". It is what you mean? > > Laurent > > > Le 25 juil. 2017 à 22:14, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> a écrit : > > Signatures are something that I see as more relevant when we get to > Packaged WP… > > But coming back here about change – this is **not** about > versions/editions/revisions. It’s about a publication that is changing “on > the fly” (with the understanding of the publisher/author, of course). > > Leonard > > *From: *"Teixeira, Mateus" <mteixeira@wwnorton.com> > *Date: *Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 3:47 PM > *To: *"White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, Hadrien Gardeur < > hadrien.gardeur@feedbooks.com>, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> > *Cc: *"public-publ-wg@w3.org" <public-publ-wg@w3.org> > *Subject: *Re: Can a publication change over time? > > Yes, Git is exactly the source of inspiration. Evan Yamanishi, here at > Norton and also a PWG member, has helped us implement a digital production > workflow along these lines. > > The digital signature point is very interesting. It's important that we > keep archival (i.e. long-term preservation) needs in mind, as our group > outlined [1] during the F2F meeting in NYC (the details of that use case > and its scope within WP/PWP are TBD, as we haven't discussed it at all yet). > > [1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sXM51YzrfahFmkJBL- > rt69Jvo0LGbOesleuEgwRWvP0/edit?usp=sharing > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1sXM51YzrfahFmkJBL-rt69Jvo0LGbOesleuEgwRWvP0%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4c07643a6ad043ec105808d4d395fa54%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636366088492276050&sdata=DDcaTS2Y74cGjaKhhbIq3tqTgIiWBvXT2k6yvkYXA%2FU%3D&reserved=0> > > > *From: *"White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org> > *Date: *Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 3:31 PM > *To: *"Teixeira, Mateus" <mteixeira@wwnorton.com>, Hadrien Gardeur < > hadrien.gardeur@feedbooks.com>, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> > *Cc: *"public-publ-wg@w3.org" <public-publ-wg@w3.org> > *Subject: *RE: Can a publication change over time? > > If authors can attach a digital signature, this would provide a strong > means of verifying that no changes have occurred to the version that the > user obtains. Perhaps what is needed is conceptually similar to what we > have in Git: I can give a specific revision a name (i.e., a tag), then > digitally sign it. > > *From:* Teixeira, Mateus [mailto:mteixeira@wwnorton.com > <mteixeira@wwnorton.com>] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 25, 2017 3:21 PM > *To:* Hadrien Gardeur <hadrien.gardeur@feedbooks.com>; Leonard Rosenthol < > lrosenth@adobe.com> > *Cc:* public-publ-wg@w3.org > *Subject:* Re: Can a publication change over time? > > I agree that from a publishing and distribution perspective—particularly > educational publishing—WP support for continuous updates will be critical. > > Publishers tend to view traditional (i.e., print) publications similar to > how developers view releases and snapshots, except we call them printings > and editions. Publications are indeed "published" at a certain time and > with a certain robustness and completeness of content, but this content can > evolve continuously throughout the publication's lifespan. Even editions > can be viewed as sequential, major versions of a publication. In fact, this > is how we at Norton approach ebook versioning in EPUB. > > That said, I agree with Hadrien's thoughts. I also add that the > (traditional) publishing use case for continuous updates will more likely > resemble coherent "releases" than minor incremental updates, at least until > our digital distribution model evolves so drastically as to make such minor > updates easy to implement and to push to the world. Perhaps a way to > approach this in WP is a recognition that WPs can be updated, but must be > done so with a specific version tagged to it—there are others in the WG who > could word this more eloquently and technically than I can. > > > *From: *Hadrien Gardeur <hadrien.gardeur@feedbooks.com> > *Date: *Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 3:06 PM > *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> > *Cc: *"public-publ-wg@w3.org" <public-publ-wg@w3.org> > *Subject: *Re: Can a publication change over time? > *Resent-From: *<public-publ-wg@w3.org> > *Resent-Date: *Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 3:05 PM > > Since we're on the Web, I think it's safe to say that everything can and > will be updated over time. No matter what we say and write, this won't > change the way things work on the Web. > > During the call, someone said (Garth maybe?) that the main concern is tied > to the primary resources of a publication. > > I think these primary resources will also be updated and change over time, > here are a few different examples: > > - it's fairly common for technical books to be updated over time (some > publishers have beta books, but with platforms like Gitbook you can expect > even more regular updates) > - serialized fiction (comics, manga but also general fiction) could be > distributed as a WP per fragment/chapter, but it might be easier for the > reader to simply point them to a WP that will be updated over time with > more content > - Librivox audiobook releases are produced by a community over time, > it would make perfect sense to have a WP for the complete publication, with > new updates as the community releases new audio files > - Jiminy Panoz provided a use case in the Github issue about remixing > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwpub%2Fissues%2F8%23issuecomment-317539201&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C7091842f843b485c0f4508d4d3925621%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636366072842086747&sdata=4zRCcwP7BWV8AVZNZAgy7mxrNbdtAaORTW76ZBOosOg%3D&reserved=0> that > is also relevant here, since a publisher could dynamically provide specific > part of a publication (author bio, highlighted titles, titles from the same > author etc.) > > These are all examples where the ability to update a WP really shines and > adds value compared to EPUB. > > Hadrien > > 2017-07-25 19:45 GMT+02:00 Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>: > > There seems to have been a good discussion on this at the meeting that I > missed ☹. And I didn’t see a specific resolution to the topic, so I > figured I’d pull it out here for further review. > > In my view, Garth said it best (copied from the minutes): > <*garth*> Publishing: defining the parts that won’t change over time. > > This means that a WP can contain resources that are a mix of “static” > (unchanging) content and “dynamic” (changing) content. I have two favorite > examples (aka real world use cases) of this: > > 1. A textbook where the quizzes can be changed by the professor for > their specific class > 2. A data dashboard that is able to display the current data > > > Does anyone believe differently about a WP and its ability to contain > “dynamic” content? > > Leonard > P.S. I am specifically **NOT** talking about PWP here – just WP. > > > ------------------------------ > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or > confidential information. 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Received on Tuesday, 25 July 2017 21:19:29 UTC