Re: definition of Web Publication

And to a certain extent these "bounds" could also be the part of the
publication that is published on the publication date, and can be expected
not to change without a new publication.  This lack of change after
publication is key to me (or at least some way to get back to the
"originally published content") -- signatures may play a role here.

Best,
   Garth

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Laurent Le Meur <laurent.lemeur@edrlab.org>
wrote:

> The bounds of a WP are IMO the resources that will be packaged when a PWP
> is created. Take the exemple of an html page (a primary resource of a WP)
> containing a video hosted on YouTube. The video content will stay out of
> the boundaries of the PWP. We can package some constituents of a WP, not
> all of them.
>
> Laurent
>
> Le 25 juil. 2017 à 22:20, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> a écrit :
>
> I don’t understand how a user would ever know (or care) about the “bounds”
> of a WP.  Can you give an example?
>
> At its simplest, a PWP is a WP that has been packaged up into a single
> physical container of content (ala EPUB).  Beyond that, we still have lots
> of work to do to understand how (if at all) it would differ from a WP.
>
> On the “states” issue, we spent a **lot** of time in the IG trying to use
> that states model and when we presented it to the rest of the W3C it was
> too confusing for many as it’s a very complex grid.   It’s also not clear
> whether we actually need all the various differences in that grid given
> many things going on with the OWP itself…
>
> Leonard
>
> *From: *Greg Albers <GAlbers@getty.edu>
> *Date: *Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 3:30 PM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Cc: *Laurent Le Meur <laurent.lemeur@edrlab.org>, "public-publ-wg@w3.org"
> <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: definition of Web Publication
>
> Thanks all. Glad to be here and I think, now that I gave the w3c
> permission to archive my posts, they'll show up here normally.
>
> Leonard, good thoughts, thanks! On this though:
>
>
>    - “bound” vs. organized:  The word bound, to me, feels more like
>    packaging – and so I think we should avoid it for now.  But it’s a good
>    word for when we get to PWP
>
>
> I would argue that a Web Publication, whether packaged or not, must have a
> sense of boundedness. That those boundaries and a users implicit or
> explicit understanding of them are a key to exactly what distinguishes a
> web publication from a website. Particularly from a user's (reader's)
> perspective, whereas yes, I think from a user agent's perspective, it is
> the manifest. That makes a lot of sense to me.
>
> A related question I had for you all was around the distinction between a
> WP and a PWP. To me packaging is a state of a WP not a separate entity from
> it. And even in our charter it states the PWP as something that we might
> define and spec out but that we might not depending on activities elsewhere
> in the w3c. Shouldn't then our definition of a WP encompass its states more
> holistically. Online v offline, packaged v not packaged, with everything v
> only with essential resources, etc...?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jul 25, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> wrote:
>
> Greg had an excellent point about curation, so let me try to add that in
> using a term that we’ve been trying out here (so feedback on that welcome
> too)
>
> A *Web Publication* (WP) is an intentionally curated collection of one or
> more Web resources organized together through a manifest and presented to
> users using Open Web Platform technologies.
>
> There were some other things in the suggestion that I didn’t take and I’d
> like to explain
>
>    - “bound” vs. organized:  The word bound, to me, feels more like
>    packaging – and so I think we should avoid it for now.  But it’s a good
>    word for when we get to PWP
>    - “uniquely identifiable grouping”: As we have discussed,
>    identification of a WP is a separate issue so that doesn’t belong in the
>    definition
>    - “reading order”: Having this in the manifest definition, I saw no
>    need to duplicate it in the WP definition.
>
>
> Leonard
>
> *From: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 1:34 PM
> *To: *Laurent Le Meur <laurent.lemeur@edrlab.org>, "public-publ-wg@w3.org"
> <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: definition of Web Publication
> *Resent-From: *<public-publ-wg@w3.org>
> *Resent-Date: *Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 1:34 PM
>
> Laurent - good rewrites, but let me play with it a bit…
>
> Do we really need the middle sentence? It doesn’t say anything useful
> (IMO).   The first and third, however are good.   We can then put it all
> together as:
>
> A *Web Publication* (WP) is a collection of one or more Web resources
> organized together through a manifest and presented to users using Open Web
> Platform technologies.
>
> Now to apply some simplification to the Manifest definition:
>
> A *manifest* is structured information about a Web Publication, such as
> informative metadata and the default reading order of its primary
> constituents.
>
> I’m not thrilled with that since it’s still not clear to me if we want all
> that stuff (metadata + resources + reading order + ….) in a single
> “manifest” **or** we will end up with multiple ones (but even then, it
> may still conceptually be a manifest).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Leonard
>
> *From: *Laurent Le Meur <laurent.lemeur@edrlab.org>
> *Date: *Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 11:38 AM
> *To: *"public-publ-wg@w3.org" <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
> *Cc: *W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: definition of Web Publication
> *Resent-From: *<public-publ-wg@w3.org>
> *Resent-Date: *Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 11:38 AM
>
> The current definition is facing a large set of comments. From these
> comments, I tried a variant of Matt's proposal:
>
> A *Web Publication* (WP) is a collection of one or more Web resources
> organized together through a manifest. The content of a Web Publication can
> take a wide variety of forms, from formal artistic and intellectual works
> to ad hoc documents and memos. Web Publications are presented to end-users
> using Open Web Platform technologies.
>
> A *manifest* is the structured information necessary for the proper
> identification and description of a Web Publication, plus the default
> reading order of its primary constituents.
>
> Laurent
>
>
>