- From: Graham Klyne <Graham.Klyne@zoo.ox.ac.uk>
- Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:42:13 +0100
- To: W3C provenance WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
All, I'm posting this for information. Over the part couple of days, I was made aware of a proposal for dataset semantics being presented to the RDF working group. I think it could lay the groundwork for making meaningful progress on the "mention" construct which (as you'll know) I find is currently unsatisfactory. With this in mind, I made a personal comment to the RDF WG, which is included. There is also a follow-up exchange with Ivan on the RDF comments list in which I (a) expand a little on the use case that motivates my position, and (b) back off somewhat on the position I take below with respect to question DD5 in the original proposal. #g -- -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Comments on TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:22:56 +0100 From: Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org> To: RDF comments <www-rdf-comments@w3.org> CC: Graham Klyne <graham.klyne@zoo.ox.ac.uk> Ref. http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics I understand this proposal is due to be discussed soon by the RDF working group, and would like to offer some comments based on my work with the W3C provenance WG. (Although derived from my contact with the provenance WG work, these are my personal comments, and have not been discussed with or endorsed by the provenance WG.) I am particularly keen that RDF Datasets can represent the kind of situation that is intended to be addressed by the provenance "mention" construct; cf. http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-prov-dm-20120724/#term-mention, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/2012Aug/0001.html. First, my thanks to the authors of this proposal; generally, it seems to me to be a nicely crafted and useful proposal for underpinning semantically justifiable uses of RDF Datasets. I'll respond to the discussion points raised in the proposal. Some of my responses are marked "(preference)", indicating that I don't currently think the choice made is critical - that I see possible workarounds if the opposite choice is adopted. I regard the important responses concern DD0 and DD5. DD0: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics#DD0:_Do_we_define_a_semantics_for_RDF_datasets.3F Yes, please define semantics for datasets. I feel that to fail to provide some level of framework for associating semantics with datasets would be a failure of the working group's charter. Even if relatively few people actually read or understand the formal semantics, I feel they provide a "centre of gravity" that helps to promote consistent treatment of RDF constructs, particularly where subtle alternative uses are possible. DD1: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics#DD1:_Different_regime_for_default_graphs_and_named_graphs.3F (preference) I don't feel strongly about this, but on balance I feel that applying a single entailment regime across all graphs is simpler, easier to understand hence less likely to lead to divergent understanding or expectations. I'm not aware of any compelling case for supporting multiple entailment regimes in a dataset. DD2: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics#DD2:_No-Semantics (preference) It's not clear to me what purpose is served by a weakened entailment regime. Depending on how and when it might be applied, It could even be considered contrary to the current RDF semantics which requires all semantic extensions to to consistent with base RDF semantics. DD3: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics#DD3:_Let_the_dataset_announce_its_assumed_entailment_regime.3F (preference) I am inclined to respond "no" to this, for 2 reasons: (1) it is a new feature that might introduce further complications and difficulties for implementations and modellers. As far as I can tell, not defining it now does not preclude defining such a feature as a future semantic extension when its implications are better understood. (2) many applications will not support entailment regimes, or may have their own local and defining a dataset to depend on them could limit its utility. Failure to implement an entailment regime should not, as I understand, lead to incorrect results, just incomplete ones. DD4, DD5: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics#DD4:_Does_the_graph_extension_assign_graphs_to_resources_or_to_IRIs.3F I'm treating these together, because I think my response to DD5 renders DD4 somewhat moot. I think it would be very useful if a graph name n *does* denote the IGEXT(n) graph, as this would provide a hook for future semantic extensions. In the context of provenance, we want to be able to express contexts/situations that are specializations of other (e.g. when talking about a web document on a particular date as a particular instance of that document during a particular year). While I would not (necessarily) expect the specifics of such a mechanism to be part of the RDF Dataset semantics, having a name for talking about the graphs leaves open the possibility of introducing new properties with their own extension semantics. The inconsistencies that would arise if the URI is used as some other kind of resource seem to me to be quite benign (i.e. "don't do that"). BUT: this begs a further question: is there any way to refer to the default graph (or some graph that entails the default graph) in an RDF Dataset? DD6: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics#DD6:_Open-graph_or_closed-graph_semantics (preference) I favour open graph semantics. I think that is more consistent with current RDF, and less likely to lead to surprises. (Based on my understanding of RDF, I find some of the illustrated results of closed graph semantics to be surprising.) DD7: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics#DD7:_Is_the_default_graph_universally_true.3F (preference) Nit: I don't know what is meant by a graph satisfying another graph. I assume that "Should the truth of a named graph require that the named graph satisfies the default graph?" is asking "Should the truth of a named graph require that the any interpretation satisfying the named graph also satisfies the default graph?" My response to this would be "no". I think this kind of additional semantic constraint should be for an extension to introduce (see my response above to DD5). I feel that requiring this constraint universally could make it harder to say things about hypothetical or fictitious contexts. ... #g
Received on Thursday, 20 September 2012 10:48:30 UTC