Draft Minutes: 2014 October 21 call

The draft minutes from the October 21 voice conference are available at 
the following and copied below:

<http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html>

WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send 
them to the public-pointer-events mail list before October 28. In the 
absence of any changes, these minutes will be considered approved.

-Thanks, ArtB

W3C <http://www.w3.org/>


  - DRAFT -


  Pointer Events WG Voice Conference


    21 Oct 2014

Agenda 
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014OctDec/0022.html>

See also:IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-irc>


    Attendees

Present
    Art_Barstow, Cathy_Chan, Doug_Schepers, Patrick_Lauke,
    Scott_Gonzαlez, Jacob_Rossi, Matt_Brubeck, Asir_Vedamuthu
Regrets
    Rick_Byers, Sangwhan_Moon
Chair
    ArtB
Scribe
    ArtB


    Contents

  * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#agenda>
     1. Tweak and agree on agenda
        <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#item01>
     2. PR-1299 and PR-1300
        <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#item02>
     3. Bug-26888 - Add "pointerleave" to "9.1 The touch-action CSS
        property"
        <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#item03>
     4. Testing and Interop
        <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#item04>
     5. "click" in the example event sequences in 11.2 Mapping for
        devices that do not support hover
        <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#item05>
     6. AoB <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#item06>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: ArtB

<rbyers> Regrets from me this week - sorry for the very short notice.


      Tweak and agree on agenda

AB:yesterday I posted a Draft 
agendahttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014OctDec/0022.html.
... Since then PR-1287 was merged so I propose we drop that agenda item 
and add the two new PRs (PR-1299 and PR-1300) that were added after the 
draft agenda was posted
... any objections?

[ None ]

AB:any other change requests?

DS:let's talk TPAC during AoB

AB:sounds good


      PR-1299 and PR-1300

AB:Jacob submitted 
PR-1299https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1287and 
PR-1300https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1299yesterday.
... Jacob, what's up with these PRs?

<mbrubeck> s/1287yesterday/1300/

JR:1299https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1287

… 1300https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1287

… not good for testing, especially scrolling

… these make the tests more reliable

… 1300 just updates 1 test file

… this will also help with the reliability

… I will also fix any -manual issues

<jrossi>https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1299

… that is, I'll just update the names since that doesn't affect the test

<jrossi>https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1300

AB:so we need some to review these PRs

… any volunteers?

MB:I can review them

… would be happy to have help

CC:I can help

JR:probably only need 2 people for 1299 and just one for 1300

AB:how will you split this up Matt and Cathy?

CC:will figure it out offline

<scribe>*ACTION:*Matt work with Cathy to review PRs 1299 and 1300 
[recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-137 - Work with cathy to review prs 1299 and 
1300 [on Matt Brubeck - due 2014-10-28].

AB:thanks Matt and Cathy
... if you review leads to a +1, then please go ahead and merge the PRs


      Bug-26888 - Add "pointerleave" to "9.1 The touch-action CSS property"

AB:we discussed this bug previously and Jacob submitted a patch 
yesterdayhttps://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/rev/0dc3e51284e4.
... Any comments on the patch?

<patrick_h_lauke> LGTM

AB:I also would say LGTM

… if people need more time, that's fine

JR:the last time we talked about this there was some speculation this 
issue could be in other parts of the spec

… I searched and did not find any other occurences

AB:if no one needs more time, then let's record a Resolution that we 
agree with Jacob's proposal

*RESOLUTION: group agrees with Jacob's patch for Bug-26888*


      Testing and Interop

AB:before we can start formal interop testing, we'll need to get closure 
on PR-1299 and PR-1300. If we assume those PRs will be ok, then we have 
a few Q and issues to discuss.
... one item is who is going to run the 
testshttp://w3c-test.org/pointerevents/on various implementations?
... can we get commitments to run the tests on IE and FFMetro?

JR:I can run the IE tests

… re constructor stuff, we have an internal build

MB:I or someone else can run the tests on FF Metro

<scribe>*ACTION:*Jacob run the PE tests on IE after all open PRs are 
resolved [recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-138 - Run the pe tests on ie after all open 
prs are resolved [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-10-28].

<scribe>*ACTION:*Matt run the PE tests on FF Metro after all open PRs 
are resolved [recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-139 - Run the pe tests on ff metro after all 
open prs are resolved [on Matt Brubeck - due 2014-10-28].

AB:another related issue is whether or not to use the w-p-t 
runnerhttp://w3c-test.org/tools/runner/index.htmlto run the tests.
... Given most tests are manual, it's not clear that using the runner 
will be the most efficient way to run the tests but it does have a good 
benefit of optionally creating a JSON file of the results and there is a 
tool to merge results files to create an Interop/Implementation Report.
... For an example, see the IndexedDB test result 
repohttps://github.com/w3c/test-results/tree/gh-pages/IndexedDB.Note the 
4 *.json files of test results for 4 different implementations.
... I haven't used the tool to merge the results but I'm sure 
PLH/Robin/JGraham/Ms2ger or other good folks in the W3C's #testing 
channel can help us. (For some additional info 
seehttps://www.npmjs.org/package/wptreport.) 
<https://www.npmjs.org/package/wptreport.%29>

… still a bit bleeding edge

MB:has anyone used runner with the PE tests?

JR:for manual tests, can those tests be verified?

AB:yes, I do believe that is the way it works

… but I haven't tried it

JR:seems to be working

AB:can you Matt try it now?

MB:no not now

… but you can assign me an action and I'll try it

<scribe>*ACTION:*matt try using w-p-t runner to run the PE tests on FF 
Metro and report the results to the group [recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-140 - Try using w-p-t runner to run the pe 
tests on ff metro and report the results to the group [on Matt Brubeck - 
due 2014-10-28].

JR:it uses Window.open

… not sure if FFMetro supports that

MB:there could be some probs there; I'll need to check

AB:we have some experimenting to do before we can agree or not on using 
runner

… but we'll try to use it if/when possible

AV:so is the default to just do manual testing?

AB:yes, that seems to be the case

JR:if runner doesn't work, then can run runner just to get the JSON file 
and then directly update the file with the data from running the tests 
manually

AB:that makes sense to me

MB:yes agree

AB:do you foresee any probs with us using runner test results for our 
Impl Report?

DS:I'll check with PLH

<jrossi> example output from merging 
JSON:https://w3c.github.io/test-results/IndexedDB/all.html

<scribe>*ACTION:*Doug check with Philippe if the runner test reporting 
mechanism is OK for CR [recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-141 - Check with philippe if the runner test 
reporting mechanism is ok for cr [on Doug Schepers - due 2014-10-28].

AB:here's an 
examplehttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-test-infra/2014OctDec/0017.html

…http://w3c.github.io/test-results/eventsource/all.html

AB:so my Q to Doug, is if something like this all.html file is acceptable

DS:yes, let me check with PLH

AB:any other Qs about testing?

AV:what is the realtionship between the TA table and the Impl Report?

AB:there is no requirement to have a linkage

… the TA doc should be part of the test suite

AV:yes, it is difficult to keep it in sync

… what is the key metric for the report?

JR:the runner is test cases (more granualr than test file)

AV:so metric is number of tests passed?

JR:the runner tool lists test cases

… we should consider the TA doc as superceded by the test report

… don't think we need to do any additional work on the TA doc

AV:so the wiki is no longer important once we have the test report

AB:I see the TA doc as a good tool with getting us organized but its not 
important once we have detailed test results

AV:then I think the TA doc should be documented as such

<scribe>*ACTION:*Art work with Asir on a bold heading on the TA doc that 
says it is frozen and no longer being worked on [recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-142 - Work with asir on a bold heading on the 
ta doc that says it is frozen and no longer being worked on [on Arthur 
Barstow - due 2014-10-28].

AB:anything else on testing for today?

[ None ]


      "click" in the example event sequences in 11.2 Mapping for devices
      that do not support hover

AB:Patrick started this thread on October 
17;http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014OctDec/0020.html.Jacob 
replied 
yesterdayhttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014OctDec/0025.html.

<patrick_h_lauke> (famous for my short and to the point email subjects...)

AB:it's not clear if the spec needs to change or not.

JR:I don't think we need to change the spec

… it's a bug in IE

<patrick_h_lauke> "The relative ordering of these high-level events 
(click, contextmenu, focus, blur, etc.) with pointer events is undefined 
and varies between user agents."

PL:for developers, could use some clarification

<patrick_h_lauke>https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEvents.html#compatibility-mapping-with-mouse-events

… but I'm not adamant; could leave it as is too

<patrick_h_lauke>https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEvents.html#mapping-for-devices-that-do-not-support-hover

PL:see 2nd Note in section 11.1

<patrick_h_lauke> so wondering if worth adding a small reminder of the 
note from 11. to the note in 11.1

JR:I don't want to document an IE bug

… think another note is overkill

… we will fix this so don't want to mention it

… If I put a note in it could imply current behavior is intended

PL:if we decide it would be overkill, then that's ok

<patrick_h_lauke> happy to leave it

AB:if anyone feels real strong, please speak up

<patrick_h_lauke> as the "typically produce" wording a the start of the 
informative note gives us enough leeway anyway

*RESOLUTION: re "click" in the example … we agree to leave the spec as is*

<patrick_h_lauke> +1


      AoB

AB:I'll be at TPAC next week so no call on Oct 28. I hope to see some of 
you there.
... Rick organized a "Scroll linked effects - demos and brainstorming" 
ad hoc meeting @ TPAC on Tuesday Oct 28 
11:00-12:00https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/ad-hoc-meetings#Scroll_linked_effects_-_demos_and_brainstorming.This 
could be interesting to some of you.

<jrossi>https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/ad-hoc-meetings#Scroll_linked_effects_-_demos_and_brainstorming

<patrick_h_lauke> any chance to remotely connect?

AB:my understanding is that support for remote participation in "ad hoc 
meetings" is ad hoc

… that is, the answer is "it depends"

<patrick_h_lauke> i'll check closer to the time with rick, no worries

<scribe>*ACTION:*barstow determine if Rick's scrolling ad hoc meeting 
will facilitate remote participation and report that on p-pointer-events 
[recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-143 - Determine if rick's scrolling ad hoc 
meeting will facilitate remote participation and report that on 
p-pointer-events [on Arthur Barstow - due 2014-10-28].

<asir> I like to listen in

<jrossi> IRC channel: #tpacscroll

<patrick_h_lauke> borrow a google glass and film/stream it live ;)

DS:for those of us that are going to be at TPAC, perhaps we should have 
an informal chat session

… for topics like Touch Events

… could try to get Apple involved

… nothing formal but since we're all there, perhaps we should try to get 
together

JR:yes agree

… CSSWG is taking about snappoint events

… I'll be there M+Tu+W

<patrick_h_lauke> as side note, 
ICYMIhttps://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=137069

DS:I'd like to participate in the snappoint talk so please let me know 
if/when that happens

AB:anything else?
... thanks all; meeting adjourned.

<patrick_h_lauke> fedex the champagne over...

<patrick_h_lauke> ah...foiled


    Summary of Action Items

*[NEW]**ACTION:*Art work with Asir on a bold heading on the TA doc that 
says it is frozen and no longer being worked on [recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action06]
*[NEW]**ACTION:*barstow determine if Rick's scrolling ad hoc meeting 
will facilitate remote participation and report that on p-pointer-events 
[recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action07]
*[NEW]**ACTION:*Doug check with Philippe if the runner test reporting 
mechanism is OK for CR [recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action05]
*[NEW]**ACTION:*Jacob run the PE tests on IE after all open PRs are 
resolved [recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]**ACTION:*Matt run the PE tests on FF Metro after all open PRs are 
resolved [recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action03]
*[NEW]**ACTION:*matt try using w-p-t runner to run the PE tests on FF 
Metro and report the results to the group [recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]**ACTION:*Matt work with Cathy to review PRs 1299 and 1300 
[recorded 
inhttp://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Received on Tuesday, 21 October 2014 16:15:19 UTC