- From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
- Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2014 13:01:10 -0500
- To: "public-pointer-events@w3.org" <public-pointer-events@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the January 7 voice conference are available at
the following and copied below:
<http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html>
WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send
them to the public-pointer-events mail list before January 13. In the
absence of any changes, these minutes will be considered approved.
-Thanks, ArtB
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Pointer Events WG Voice Conference
07 Jan 2014
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0001.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-irc
Attendees
Present
Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, Cathy_Chan, Rick_Byers,
Jacob_Rossi, Olli_Pettay, Asir_Vedamuthu, Scott_Gonzalez
Regrets
Chair
Art
Scribe
Art
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Tweak agenda
2. [6]Bug 21749 Setting a capture on an offshore element
AB: Jacob filed 21749 on 19-Apr-2013;
<https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21749>
3. [7]Bug 21951 - [CR] pointermove dispatching when
button state changes;
4. [8]Add non-normative example section to mouse
compatibility event mapping? Raised by Rick and
Patrick Lauke on 10-Dec-2013
5. [9]"List of Pointer Events" table default actions;
raised by Patrick Lauke on 10-Dec-2013;
6. [10]Sub-pixel coordinate granularity; filed by Rick on
17-Dec-2013;
7. [11]Testing
8. [12]Status of PR324 (touch-action tests)
9. [13]implementation status
* [14]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
<scribe> Scribe: Art
<jrossi2> * realized I don't have a mic .. brb
Tweak agenda
AB: Happy New Year everyone!
... I posted a draft agenda a few days ago
[15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0001.html.
... without Sangwhan present, perhaps we should postpone the
"Compatibility Events" topic.
... any objections to that?
[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0001.html.
[ None ]
AB: any other change requests?
[ None ]
AB: anyone want to Scribe today's call?
RB: I'll do it
Scribe+ Rick
<scribe> ScribeNick: rbyers
Bug 21749 Setting a capture on an offshore element AB: Jacob filed
21749 on 19-Apr-2013;
<[16]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21749>
[16] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21749%3E
AB: Originally based on input from Francois Remy
<ArtB>
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013AprJun/0084.html -> Francois Remy
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013AprJun/0084.html
JR: Mail is longer than what I pasted into the bug
... It's possible this is an IE bug
... This is a good test case nonetheless - scenario requires
some discussion
... Scenario: element not in the DOM - can you setCapture to
that, let alone receive pointer events
... generally we avoid firing input events to elements that
aren't in the DOM
... if you create an element (without putting it in the DOM)
and call setPointerCapture, what should happen?
... Normally you'd only use setCapture on an element in the
tree
... IE throws an exception but that's not written in the spec
... either could see fixing IE to make it not throw
... or update the spec to make it throw
... but open to discussion
RB: There's no scenario where an element not in the tree would
receive a real input event, right?
JR: Right. Closest is an input sync - but could just be in the
tree
AB: If there are no other comments, Jacob should propose spec
change to the list
OP: Agree we should throw some exception. And for consistency
if capture is on some element and then element is removed from
the document, we should also release capture.
JR: Good point, we should capture that as well
DS: Trying to think of scenarios
SG: Scenarios where an element is removed and re-added
elsewhere
... as far as the user is concerned it's just moving, not being
removed
... not sure it needs to receive events while not in the tree,
but should after it's re-inserted
RB: What does IE do when an element that has capture is removed
from the DOM
JR: Just checking - believe it's released and get lostcapture
event - good edge case we need to document
DS: Need to ensure event is rebased onto the right element
JR: Happens naturally as a result of hit-testing
RB: IE's behavior makes sense to me and ti seems quite
edge-case since capture is always explicit (unlike touch
events).
... Assuming IE hasn't got complaints, I think we should just
spec what IE does here.
DS: Are there developers using pointer events extensively
today?
JR: Yes - tons. Google maps, Bing maps, flipboard, all windows
8 apps, etc.
... we get lots of feedback from developers
DS: What I meant is is there someone we know using pointer
events we could ask for their input?
RB: Did Francois express an opinion on whether IE's behavior
was reasonable?
JR: Sounds like he's leaning towards IE behavior
DS: What about shadow DOM? Is that considered in the dom?
JR: Yes - just a different mechanism for how events propagate
... Test in IE shows that an element that has capture that is
removed and re-added still receives events.
<ArtB> ACTION: Jacob propose text to address bug 21749; confirm
change with Francois Remy [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Propose text to address bug
21749; confirm change with francois remy [on Jacob Rossi - due
2014-01-14].
RB: How about Jacob confirms IE's behavior here (eg. what
happens to the events while the capture element is out of the
DOM)
Bug 21951 - [CR] pointermove dispatching when button state changes;
<ArtB>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013AprJun/0134.html -> comment from Scott
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013AprJun/0134.html
<ArtB>
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013AprJun/0141.html -> Jacob's reply to Scott
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013AprJun/0141.html
JR: Not clear in the spec that pointermove doesn't have to fire
if the button change is captured by another event.
... Eg. putting the pointer down doesn't need to ALSO fire a
pointermove.
SG: Right
<jrossi2>
[21]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21951
[21] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21951
JR: Looks like we already agreed to add a sentence
<ArtB> ACTION: Jacob propose text to address bug 21951
[recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Propose text to address bug
21951 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-01-14].
RESOLUTION: Clarify pointermove does not fire for button change
described by other events
Add non-normative example section to mouse compatibility event
mapping? Raised by Rick and Patrick Lauke on 10-Dec-2013
[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013OctDec/0067.html
[23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013OctDec/0067.html
<ArtB>
[24]http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/CR-pointerevents-20130509/#compat
ibility-mapping-with-mouse-events -> Mouse Interop
[24] http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/CR-pointerevents-20130509/#compatibility-mapping-with-mouse-events
Details:
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013OctDec/0068.html
[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013OctDec/0068.html
JR: Yes, adding an example and some clarifying text sounds like
it would address his concerns.
... would be relatively straight forward but helpful
... all included in the algorithm, but requires the reader to
trace the algorithm
... would be helpful to have such examples
<ArtB> ACTION: Jacob propose text re "Add non-normative example
section to mouse compat event mapping"; get confirmation from
Patrick [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Propose text re "add
non-normative example section to mouse compat event mapping";
get confirmation from patrick [on Jacob Rossi - due
2014-01-14].
DS: Agree - suggest Jacob proposes some text for this
"List of Pointer Events" table default actions; raised by Patrick
Lauke on 10-Dec-2013;
[27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013OctDec/0069.html
[27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013OctDec/0069.html
DS: Currently no replies on the list
JR: Yes I discussed this with him over Twitter
... confusion over word 'dispatch' isn't really the issue here
... The table reads as only pointerdown dispatches
compatibility mouse events
... Not sure what the right wording is here
DS: Take discussion to the list or any other thoughts?
<ArtB> ACTION: Jacob reply to Patrick's "List of Pointer
Events" ... thread [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-60 - Reply to patrick's "list of
pointer events" ... thread [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-01-14].
<ArtB> ACTION: Rick reply to Patrick's "List of Pointer Events"
... thread [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Reply to patrick's "list of
pointer events" ... thread [on Rick Byers - due 2014-01-14].
DS: Will get Rick and Jacob to reply to patrick
Sub-pixel coordinate granularity; filed by Rick on 17-Dec-2013;
[30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013OctDec/0074.html
[30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013OctDec/0074.html
RB: CSS px unit as an integer is increasingly lossly - eg.
scrolling by CSS px on mobile devices is quite jumpy
... 1 CSS px is typically 2 or 3 hardware pixels on mobile
devices
JR: Agree that any issues should be taken to CSS OM spec
... believe we already do this when user zoom is applied
... think we hit some website compatibility issues preventing
doing this in all cases
AB: Any other feedback? Important topic but doesn't directly
affect pointer event spec
JR: Yes I think the pointer event spec - doesn't assume
co-ordinates are integers
... just a messy inter-spec dependency
... we link to DOM3 events spec, but that may not document
relationship with CSS OM.
RB: Any harm in us having some text that refers to CSS OM?
JR: It's been a slow-moving spec - don't want to take a hard
dependency on it
AB: If the text was non-normative it would be OK
JR: Yes, there's a normative reference to DOM3 mouse events, we
could add a non-normative note that CSSOM extends it.
DS: Seems fine to me
... We could always change later - functionally the
dependencies don't really matter in my opinion
... we should do most pragmatic thing for now
... can always change last minute
AB: So Jacob and Rick should propose text to address issue
RB: I think what Jacob just proposed is perfect
AB: Sounds find, any objections?
RESOLUTION: Add non-normative note that CSSOM extends mouse
events
<ArtB> ACTION: jacob add a non-normative note that CSSOM
extends mouse events [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Add a non-normative note that
cssom extends mouse events [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-01-14].
Testing
Status of PR324 (touch-action tests)
AB: There were actions for Cathy and Rick to review
RB: I added comments back in Nov, but failed to send my summary
notes to the list (found it tedious due to all the copy/past)
... sent those comments to the list this morning
CC: Agree with Rick. I reviewed them as well.
... but was very tedious
AB: Do we consider PR closed then?
JR: We've seen the feedback but haven't updated the test cases
yet
... we should continue to iterate, and accept once everyone is
happy
OP: Yes that makes it more clean
AB: So we'll get a notification from MS when comments are
addressed
RB: I think someone (Scott) said they'd merge the tests
JR: We have a submissions branch - we'd want to accept the PR
first, then let Scott do the refactoring
AB: Makes sense to me
RB: Yep, that's fine
JR: Otherwise we'll get into conflicts
SG: Makes sense to me
JR: Rick, can you help contributing your scenarios?
... lots of discussion about the architecture of the tests
<scott_gonzalez> I need to join another call.
Here's an exmaple of one of my blink tests:
[32]http://www.rbyers.net/touch-action-pan.html
[32] http://www.rbyers.net/touch-action-pan.html
Also if it's helpful, here are some others:
[33]http://www.rbyers.net/touch-action-overflow.html
[33] http://www.rbyers.net/touch-action-overflow.html
[34]http://www.rbyers.net/touch-action-shadow-dom.html
[34] http://www.rbyers.net/touch-action-shadow-dom.html
[35]http://www.rbyers.net/touch-action-simple.html
[35] http://www.rbyers.net/touch-action-simple.html
implementation status
AS: We're making progress on firefox, no specific update to
report
<smaug> grr
<smaug> skype
<smaug> rbyers: do you implement also your proposed
touch-action-delay property?
<smaug> and Zakim doesn't let me to re-call
RB: We've decided in chrome to ship touch-action support ahead
of my proposed touch-action-delay.
... touch-action support is tracked here:
[36]https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=241964
and over the holidays I got it essentially functionally
complete
... so it's now available in Chrome canary builds by running
with the --enable-experimental-web-platform-features flag
... there are some outstanding bugs / limitations with it, but
the plan is to have those fixed in time to ship with Chrome 35
or sooner - i.e. on by default in daily builds by the end of
March at the latest.
... Then we'll revisit the touch-action-delay vs. full pointer
event debate
[36] https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=241964
smaug: We're continuing major re-architecture to make
touch-action-delay possible but don't have anything that is
useful end-to-end yet
DS: How receptive is FireFox to pointer events work?
<smaug> rbyers: is it documented somewhere how touch-action and
touchevents work together ?
AS: We're working with the community, will have more details
next time
<smaug> in Chromium impl
smaug: With just touch-action (not touch-action-delay) there
really isn't much interaction at all. Details are (burried)
here:
[37]https://docs.google.com/a/chromium.org/document/d/1CV2AXyrd
PdGSRypAQcfGrgQVuWYi50EzTmVsMLWgRPM/edit
[37] https://docs.google.com/a/chromium.org/document/d/1CV2AXyrdPdGSRypAQcfGrgQVuWYi50EzTmVsMLWgRPM/edit
<smaug> rbyers: but do you always dispatch touch events then?
<smaug> or only if there are listeners?
<smaug> touch-action is effectively opt-in
<mbrubeck_> hey guys -- sorry, I'm traveling and lost track of
time zones
<mbrubeck_> looking for somewhere I can use a phone
<mbrubeck_> oh, looks like you are finished. oops
smaug: touch-ACTION: auto doesn't change behavior at all. Yes
we always send touch events - the question is just when our
'touchcancel on scoll' behavior kicks in.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jacob add a non-normative note that CSSOM extends
mouse events [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion06]
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob propose text re "Add non-normative example
section to mouse compat event mapping"; get confirmation from
Patrick [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion03]
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob propose text to address bug 21749; confirm
change with Francois Remy [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion01]
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob propose text to address bug 21951 [recorded
in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion02]
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob reply to Patrick's "List of Pointer Events"
... thread [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion04]
[NEW] ACTION: Rick reply to Patrick's "List of Pointer Events"
... thread [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion05]
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 7 January 2014 18:04:20 UTC