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Draft Minutes: 27 November 2012

From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:25:48 -0500
Message-ID: <50B4F79C.7070505@nokia.com>
To: "public-pointer-events@w3.org" <public-pointer-events@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the November 27 voice conference are available at 
<http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html> and copied below.

WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send 
them to the public-pointer-events mail list before December 4. In the 
absence of any changes, these minutes will be considered approved.

Thanks Rick for Scribing this meeting!

-ArtB

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    Pointer Events WG Voice Conference

27 Nov 2012

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2012JulSep/0005.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, Scott_González, Rick_Byers,
           Asir_Vedamuthu, Cathy_Chan, Matt_Brubeck,
           Peter_Beverloo, Jacob_Rossi

    Regrets
           Jacob_Rossi, Olli_Pettay

    Chair
           Art

    Scribe
           Art, Rick_Byers

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Scribe
          2. [6]Tweaking the agenda
          3. [7]Introductions
          4. [8]group dynamics
          5. [9]Use cases and requirements
          6. [10]testing
          7. [11]the spec itself
          8. [12]AoB
      * [13]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <ArtB> Scribe: Art

    <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB

    Date: 27 November 2012

Scribe

    <rbyers> Zakin, ??P2 is rbyers

    AB: we need a scribe. The basic instructions are in our Meeting
    wiki <[14]http://www.w3.org/wiki/PointerEvents/Meetings>

      [14] http://www.w3.org/wiki/PointerEvents/Meetings%3E

    RB: I can do so

    Scribe+ Rick_Byers

    <scribe> ScribeNick: rbyers

    <scribe> Scribe: Rick_Byers

Tweaking the agenda

    All: no changes to agenda

Introductions

    Art: Represents Nokia and was chair of WebEvents.
    ... Interested in having a single touch API for the web
    ... Also our chair

    Doug: I'm the W3C staff contact.
    ... Also interesting in having a touch model that is fairly
    universally supported

    <ArtB> Rick: I am a sw engineer at Google focusing on Chrome
    desktop

    <ArtB> … want people to be able to create touch based apps

    <ArtB> … we think PE provides a good path forward

    Peter: also software engineer at Google
    ... same reasons as google

    Asir: From Microsoft
    ... Interested in getting pointer events used everywhere

    Matt: Work at Mozilla, worked previously on firefox for Android
    ... Now working on Firefox for Windows 8
    ... Was one if the editors of touch events spec

    Cathy: From nokia
    ... also want a unified touch model

    Scott: project lead for jQuery UI
    ... don't want to work with touch events because they have a
    different structure than mouse events
    ... want to build a wrapper around mouse and touch to bring
    pointer support to browsers that don't have it

group dynamics

    ArtB: Peter is Peter Beverloo

    Art: Same basic model as touch events
    ... key differences: will use bugzilla for bugs
    ... and will have a separate scribe
    ... if something isn't recorded correctly in meeting minutes,
    it's everyone's responsibility to ensure they're corrected
    ... will use tracker for action tracking - mostly for Doug/Art
    to keep track of administrative tasks
    ... didn't want to spend time on more procedural stuff
    ... unless there are questions?

    Doug: want to make it clear we are not dealing with gestures
    here
    ... gestures are a legitimate interest, but we can talk about
    it in another context.

Use cases and requirements

    <ArtB>
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
    012OctDec/0028.html

      [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2012OctDec/0028.html

    Art: having requirements and use cases documented really does
    simplify how we focus
    ... eg. what we should focus on in v1 vs. future version
    ... Is someone willing to commit to leading this effort?

    <ArtB> ACTION: barstow Create a UC and Reqs document for PE
    spec and look contributions [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1 - Create a UC and Reqs document for
    PE spec and look contributions [on Arthur Barstow - due
    2012-12-04].

testing

    Art: usually a mistake to consider testing as an after thought
    ... will use testharness.js
    ... used by many other working groups
    ... Expectation is that everyone will contribute to the testing
    effort
    ... It may not be the most glamourous but it's essential
    ... Do recommend 12 people active in the testing effort
    ... Would be helpful to have someone commit to being the
    group's test facilitator
    ... Anyone willing to step up?

    Matt: I can take it on

    Matt rocks

the spec itself

    <ArtB> —>
    [17]http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEve
    nts.html

      [17] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEvents.html

    Art: we've had a few bugs / issues on the list
    ... but bugzilla was just created so we need to create bugs for
    them
    ... everyone on the list should feel free to create bugs at any
    time
    ... specifically: francois issue on pressure, Rick's issue on
    mouseenter/leave, Rick's issue on touch event mapping

    Jacob: appreciate great feedback on the list so far
    ... still catching up on e-mail from the past week
    ... mouseenter/leave - probably ALL mouse events should be
    optional
    ... model we'd like to push for in the future is that authors
    write only to pointer events
    ... also was an issue with a section that got dropped

    Rick: was it intentional that there was no pointer enter /
    leave?

    Jacob: are important, believe we should add it
    ... really just didn't have time to get to them in IE10
    ... welcome addition to the spec from my perspective

    Art: process going forward:
    ... use bugzilla to handle issues, and
    ... continue to discuss on list

    <ArtB> ACTION: Jacob create issues for the initial comments for
    the PE spec [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Create issues for the initial
    comments for the PE spec [on Jacob Rossi - due 2012-12-04].

    Jacob: most interesting conversation so far is about pressure
    ... but would personally like to do some research first

    Rick: do we want to talk about touch event mapping here?

    <ArtB> —> Mapping e-mail from Rick
    [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
    012OctDec/0047.html

      [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2012OctDec/0047.html

    Matt: haven't had a chance to do experimenting yet

    Jacob: would like touch-event mapping section to be
    non-normative
    ... or optional

    Art: Agree documentation should be written, but we need to be
    careful about how we document the mapping
    ... could define mapping in the context of the web events
    working group
    ... could have PE working group define it in non-normative way,
    eg. with a note in pe spec or separate document

    Doug: there is no process here, if issues arise we'll deal with
    them

    Jacob: may be better to do in the context of web events - so
    someone coming across the touch events spec sees that there's a
    newer model...

    Rick: will commit to writing it up

    Art: will work with you on getting it in the right place /
    format

    <asir> I mentioned that this can be in a separate non-normative
    doc on the Working Group Note track

    Rick: only concern is that we may need to tweak pointer event
    spec slightly to allow behavior that dopesn't break touch
    events

    Jacob: agree is worth accomodating in the PE spec

    asir: feel free to open issues
    ... first milestone is public draft in December

    Art: there was a change, actually first milestone is January

    Asir: looking for editors?

    Art: Jacob is currently editor. If members of the group make
    "relatively substantial contributions" then that would provide
    an option to become a co-editor
    ... with respect to first public working draft, that's a WG
    decision on when we want to make that
    ... window of opportunity to get one this month is closing
    rapidly

    Jacob: what are people's thoughts on what's missing for first
    draft?

    Art: from process perspective: looking for breadth of feature
    set
    ... signal to members that when making IP commitments, spec is
    at state that it can be reviewed for potential IP concerns
    members may have
    ... but no expectation that first draft will have depth

    Doug: would be really valuable to have spec out as soon as
    possible

    Rick: eg. if we wanted to expand touch-action list to include
    more of the things in IE10, is that something we should try to
    get in the first draft?

    Asir: could be as issues listed in the spec

    Doug: first public working draft carries patent and
    royalty-free license commitment
    ... the more we have in there, the stronger the signal is that
    all members agree...

    Art: first draft is by no means a feature freeze
    ... that's the last call draft
    ... ideal to touch all features in first draft, but doesn't
    have to
    ... should get potential features into bugzilla

    Jacob: always easier to add to spec then to remove
    ... so prefer tracking in bugzilla

    <ArtB> ACTION: jacob add a link to Bugzilla in the Status of
    this Document section [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Add a link to Bugzilla in the
    Status of this Document section [on Jacob Rossi - due
    2012-12-04].

    Rick: ok to file issues for feature wish list, even if unlikely
    for v1?

    Jacob: yes please - hard to track down later

    <ArtB> ACTION: barstow work with Doug and Rick re how to
    document TouchEvents / PointerEvents Mapping [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Work with Doug and Rick re how to
    document TouchEvents / PointerEvents Mapping [on Arthur Barstow
    - due 2012-12-04].

    Doug: feel free to file lots of issues even without discussion
    on list
    ... but may be a good idea to send e-mail to the list with a
    summary

    Asir: if changes are made in bugzilla are notifications sent
    out?

    Art: when issues are created, notification goes to list
    ... at that point people should add themselves as cc if they
    are interested in seeing updates
    ... when bug is closed, e-mail goes out to list again

    <scribe> ACTION: barstow find out how to auto-cc specific
    people or list on all bug updates [on Arthur Barstow - due
    2012-12-04] [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - find out how to auto-cc specific
    people or list on all bug updates [on Arthur Barstow [on Arthur
    Barstow - due 1970-01-01].

    Art: any other comments on the spec for today?

    Rick/Asir/Jacob: supportive of publishing as soon as possible
    with link to list of open issues

    Art: ok, next call we'll propose publishing first draft in
    December

AoB

    Art: we will have a call next week
    ... proposal to publish first public working draft
    ... any other topics from the list will be on the agenda

    Same time next tuesday

    asir: maybe just a missing _ in your case?

    (names can't have spaces I believe)

    <asir> i see

    <mbrubeck> heh

    heh

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: barstow Create a UC and Reqs document for PE spec
    and look contributions [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion01]
    [NEW] ACTION: barstow find out how to auto-cc specific people
    or list on all bug updates [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-12-04]
    [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion05]
    [NEW] ACTION: barstow work with Doug and Rick re how to
    document TouchEvents / PointerEvents Mapping [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion04]
    [NEW] ACTION: jacob add a link to Bugzilla in the Status of
    this Document section [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Jacob create issues for the initial comments for
    the PE spec [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion02]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 27 November 2012 17:26:04 UTC

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