RE: [Minutes] 2016-10-24 Incl. *Time change next week*

12:30 is fine by me.

Ben

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Archer [mailto:phila@w3.org]
> Sent: 24 October 2016 15:47
> To: Myles, Stuart; POE WG
> Subject: Re: [Minutes] 2016-10-24 Incl. *Time change next week*
> 
> Hi Stuart,
> 
> I have carefully not used the term GMT as people often equate that with
> London time.
> 
> But bottom line, yes, we're suggesting a regular slot of 07:30 Eastern
> from November - as that's better for you and Brian than the alternative
> suggestion which was to leave it at 12:00 UTC which would make it 07:00
> for you. Brian said 07:30 was preferable to 07:00 (who would argue!).
> Remember that for Renato... its late :-)
> 
> I note your dislike of 07:30 EDT. Let's see what others say (there
> weren't many on today' call).
> 
> Phil.
> 
> On 24/10/2016 15:02, Myles, Stuart wrote:
> > Perhaps I am confused by my jet lag but weren't previous meetings on the
> hour at noon GMT? For example, here is the meeting invite for Monday 05
> September 2016 - Noon GMT
> >
> > https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160905

> >
> > A change to 12.30 UTC / 8.30 Eastern for next Monday works for me. But a
> change to 11.30 UTC / 7.30am will be considerably harder for me to make the
> telecons.
> >
> > Again, please forgive me if I've misunderstood / become confused.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Phil Archer [mailto:phila@w3.org]
> > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:15 AM
> > To: POE WG
> > Subject: [Minutes] 2016-10-24 Incl. *Time change next week*
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Predictably enough, the minutes of today's meeting are at
> https://www.w3.org/2016/10/24-poe-minutes with a text snapshot below.
> > Thanks to Simon for scribing.
> >
> > As Europe moves off daylight saving this weekend, and the USA follows suit
> the following week, we talked about the call timing. End result, as of next
> week, 31/10, the call will begin at *12:30 UTC*.
> >
> > In your time zone that's
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-

> 3A__www.timeanddate.com_worldclock_fixedtime.html-3Fmsg-3DRegular-2BPOE-2BWG-
> 2BCall-26iso-3D20161031T1230-26p1-3D1440-26ah-3D1&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=o8Lxc5WZSytq
> 2PDlaQfeLZDeZEBvWjdzkIyMtRtd3gU&e=
> >
> > For next week that means
> > East coast: *08:30*
> > UK: 12:30
> > CET: 13:30
> > Brisbane: 22:30
> >
> >
> > The following week, USA will have also ended DST and so the call will be at
> 07:30 EDT.
> >
> > Hope that's OK with everyone.
> >
> >
> >
> >    Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
> >
> > 24 Oct 2016
> >
> >     See also: [2]IRC log
> >
> >        [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/10/24-poe-irc

> >
> > Attendees
> >
> >     Present
> >            renato, scribe, ivan, Serena, Brian_Ulicny, phila, Simon
> >
> >     Regrets
> >            Stuart, Michael, Ben, Caroline, Victor
> >
> >     Chair
> >            renato
> >
> >     Scribe
> >            simonstey
> >
> > Contents
> >
> >       * [3]Topics
> >           1. [4]admin
> >           2. [5]UC from BSIG
> >           3. [6]POE.UC.28: Enhance discovery of library collection
> >              materials
> >           4. [7]POE.UC.29
> >           5. [8]POE.UC.30
> >           6. [9]POE.UC.31
> >           7. [10]change of meeting time
> >       * [11]Summary of Action Items
> >       * [12]Summary of Resolutions
> >       __________________________________________________________
> >
> >     <scribe> scribe: simonstey
> >
> > admin
> >
> >     renato: approval of last week's minutes
> >
> >     [13]https://www.w3.org/2016/10/17-poe-minutes.html

> >
> >       [13] https://www.w3.org/2016/10/17-poe-minutes.html

> >
> >     <Brian_Ulicny> +1
> >
> >     <Serena> +1
> >
> >     scribe: no objections; minutes accepted
> >
> > UC from BSIG
> >
> >     <renato>
> >     [14]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-

> 3A__docs.google.com_document_d_15nbqGY20IIGbTQOzKxzw59T&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLc
> oWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=vDsGoOS_fhDh
> OinGnaRkf0hKDDkMtCd32ruUq_bEFpo&e=
> >     LzwfPpRZu-1KKA97phKg/edit
> >
> >       [14]
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-

> 3A__docs.google.com_document_d_15nbqGY20IIGbTQOzKxzw59TLzwfPpRZu-
> 2D1KKA97phKg_edit&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=OgRkIWjtalPC
> uOMS0uwyzhBEmun2x77aC6fHcNoTCGU&e=
> >
> >     renato: we got some UC from the book industry study group
> >
> >     <phila> Happy, sure
> >
> >     renato: we'll now go through them one by one
> >
> >     <Serena> sure
> >
> > POE.UC.28: Enhance discovery of library collection materials
> >
> >     UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: some req. read more like principles rather
> >     than actual requirements
> >     ... not sure what library-to-library licensing actually entails
> >
> >     +q
> >
> >     <phila> simonstey: Second what Phil said, this library to
> >     library case isn't special from our POV. You can define an
> >     agreement, one library is the assignee, one is the assigner
> >     etc.
> >
> >     phila: one response is "this is already covered" and I think so
> >     too
> >
> >     22.1 -> already covered
> >
> >     +q
> >
> >     <Brian_Ulicny> +q
> >
> >     <phila> simonstey: This could be a super valuable asset that
> >     you physically display but only for the case of someone to look
> >     at t, not to lend it out etc.
> >
> >     Brian_Ulicny: not sure what "display for discovery" actually
> >     means
> >
> >     renato: maybe we should ask them for some clarification
> >
> >     22.2 -> ask BISG for clarification
> >
> >     <phila> simonstey: This is related too the grouping of assets?
> >
> >     <phila> ... The chapters, graphs etc.
> >
> >     renato: later on we have req. referring to breaking down the
> >     asset into individual parts
> >
> >     22.3 -> already satisfied (i.e. defning perm/.. for individual
> >     subcomponents and group them together in a policy)
> >
> >     22.4 -> already satisfied
> >
> > POE.UC.29
> >
> >     phila: that's potentially a bigger problem than just applying
> >     perm/prohibitions
> >     ... this I believe is a hot topic in digital publishing
> >     ... if you have an ID for your document, how are you
> >     identifying individual parts?
> >
> >     ivan: I don't think this WG should try to invent something
> >     ... we should take whatever's already out there
> >     ... I think the issue here is whether this can be used for ODRL
> >     ... the gettyimage is a difficult example in that context
> >     ... if I have a resource, can I assign perm/proh to that
> >     resource
> >     ... and subsequently to parts of that resource too?
> >
> >     renato: well.. partially
> >     ... we want to have something that allows us to define "parts"
> >     of an asset
> >
> >     ivan: I have URI1 describing certain rights, URI2 describing
> >     some other rights
> >     ... can I say -> for everything that's not covered by URI1,
> >     look for it at URI2
> >
> >     renato: no, I don't think so
> >
> >     phila: it is not easy to define such "default behavior/set of
> >     metadata", we did that in POWDER
> >     ... I think we are getting well beyond what this WG should do
> >     ... I'm not proposing POWDER as a solution, just wanted to
> >     mention it
> >
> >     <Brian_Ulicny> +q
> >
> >     +q
> >
> >     ivan: from an ODRL point of view, structure isn't that
> >     important
> >
> >     Brian_Ulicny: I think there are 2 issues here
> >     ... 1) whether rights of parts are communicated back to the
> >     whole
> >
> >     <phila> simonstey: Regarding this issue of parts of a whole,
> >     applying things to the whole or parts... this is put here in
> >     the domain of libraries, but we also have it coming from TR.
> >     They boil down to this use case.
> >
> >     ivan: I want to be a bit cautious about saying "just put a URI
> >     on it"
> >     ... I would not dismiss the fact that someones uses a blank
> >     node for describing a resource
> >
> >     <phila> [15]POWDER eg
> >
> >       [15] https://www.w3.org/TR/powder-dr/#eg2-6

> >
> >     phila: I keep talking about powder
> >     ... it's an example of a policy
> >     ... line 7 -> beginning of an audit list (dr = description
> >     resource)
> >     ... 1) IRI set 2) set of descriptors
> >
> >     [phila explains example POWDER policy]
> >
> >     <ivan>
> >     [16]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-

> 3A__w3c.github.io_web-2Dannotation_selector-2Dnote_index-
> 2Dres&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=LKdhHbovu6Om
> aqPGgCA_MIZaPrZkx93DzspJMBROf2c&e=
> >     pec.html
> >
> >       [16]
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w3c.github.io_web-

> 2Dannotation_selector-2Dnote_index-2Drespec.html&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=hduW5zE8POrz
> rB7HQ3CWAHSJvQDkox8UmC0TaPw81C8&e=
> >
> >     ivan: that's the document I was referring to
> >     ... section 3 the selectors
> >
> >     <ivan>
> >     [17]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-

> 3A__w3c.github.io_web-2Dannotation_selector-2Dnote_index-
> 2Dres&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=LKdhHbovu6Om
> aqPGgCA_MIZaPrZkx93DzspJMBROf2c&e=
> >     pec.html#TextQuoteSelector_def
> >
> >       [17]
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w3c.github.io_web-

> 2Dannotation_selector-2Dnote_index-2Drespec.html-23TextQuoteSelector-
> 5Fdef&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=LHa1-
> GxeM3GcJBdB403_mDEHaWYAzNfZ5ZlbGQd_X8Q&e=
> >
> >     ivan: an example expressed in JSON defining sections of a
> >     document
> >     ... this (or a combination for that matter) is able to define
> >     specific parts of a document
> >     ... what the rec. behind that doesn't have is URIs for it
> >
> >     <ivan>
> >     [18]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-

> 3A__w3c.github.io_web-2Dannotation_selector-2Dnote_index-
> 2Dres&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=LKdhHbovu6Om
> aqPGgCA_MIZaPrZkx93DzspJMBROf2c&e=
> >     pec.html#json-examples-converted-to-fragment-identifiers
> >
> >       [18]
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w3c.github.io_web-

> 2Dannotation_selector-2Dnote_index-2Drespec.html-23json-2Dexamples-
> 2Dconverted-2Dto-2Dfragment-2Didentifiers&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=QyWpUZyqrQOs
> QvvlL3B7IzgFynGTzpgkkHkiylXC5ng&e=
> >
> >     ivan: here you do get URIs (ugly ones though)
> >     ... I don't know whether it's possible for ODRL to define
> >     perms/prohi. for something that's defined like that
> >
> >     renato: you are talking about example 6 of the first link
> >     you've posted?
> >     ... I recall that we've a req. that requires to be able to
> >     define constraints on assets too
> >
> >     <ivan>
> >     [19]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-

> 3A__w3c.github.io_web-2Dannotation_selector-2Dnote_index-
> 2Dres&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=LKdhHbovu6Om
> aqPGgCA_MIZaPrZkx93DzspJMBROf2c&e=
> >     pec.html#SelectorRefinement_def
> >
> >       [19]
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w3c.github.io_web-

> 2Dannotation_selector-2Dnote_index-2Drespec.html-23SelectorRefinement-
> 5Fdef&d=CwICaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=kjtJv_yl0p9h
> 4Eys2gqrv-NssB0mSlU04bzrAAcoUOk&e=
> >
> >     ivan: yes, it could be seen as constraint on a URI
> >
> >     [renato & ivan talking about possible realization in ODRL]
> >
> >     renato: we'll ask them to give us some clarification
> >
> >     23.6/7 -> implementation specific
> >
> >     23.1-5 -> ask BISG for clarification
> >
> > POE.UC.30
> >
> >     ivan: 24.3 refers to the fact that certain publishers may
> >     provide free "samples" of their books
> >     ... but this would then actually result in two different assets
> >
> >     +q
> >
> >     <phila> simonstey: I don't think we can enumerate all the
> >     possible purposes
> >
> >     renato: long long time ago we had something like "subscription"
> >
> >     <Serena> I agree with Simon
> >
> >     <phila> simonstey: I think the fact that we can add time to
> >     permissions etc. means ODRL covers these use cases
> >
> > POE.UC.31
> >
> >     25.1 -> supported using grantUse/nextPolicy
> >
> >     24.1-24.5 -> covered, need some investigation though
> >
> > change of meeting time
> >
> >     <phila> phila: Will circulate new time of 12:30 UTC which, in
> >     UTC terms, is half an hour later than the current meeting time,
> >     but will be half an hour earlier on northern hemisphere
> >     calendars after DST ends
> >
> > Summary of Action Items
> >
> > Summary of Resolutions
> >
> >     [End of minutes]
> >       __________________________________________________________
> >
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Phil Archer
> W3C Data Activity Lead
> http://www.w3.org/2013/data/
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-

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> GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=GQ6xvz2BG1vCgiGGeLHdL1qJLbLUqYG6W19eFBlznzDGH3w
> jzyriGVJemENTKsgx&m=77M2UyIOEzoLcpwf4E38QoV5uQ5pMRVe2OrsEmu6LxY&s=wDKnA0nLxao0
> I_A-lGscKTqU3BhYOQeGGM2oU0bptFM&e=
> +44 (0)7887 767755
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Received on Monday, 24 October 2016 15:40:01 UTC