Re: How is aria-interactive different than tabindex=-1

I agree with James, a new "table" role is much simpler to understand. I
might like to see "cell" added as a synonym for "gridcell" but to keep
things simple essentially reuse the rest of the grid attributes like "row",
"rowheader", "columnheader". At most that's two new roles.

I also vote to move forward with aria-interactive as proposed. I basically
like all of the text as-is except that I think it should be allowed on more
widget roles than just list and grid. Developers *already* build all sorts
of widgets that respond to keyboard shortcuts when focused, we need a way
to expose this information to screen readers.

On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 4:11 PM, James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 5/20/2015 3:57 PM, Matthew King wrote:
>
> "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org> <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote on 05/20/2015
> 02:35:21 PM:
> > Perhaps the ARIA 2.0 discussion will be a suitable
> > opportunity to rework the approach and to establish foundations for
> > long-term extensibility. The integration of ARIA with Web components
> > could also ease the burden on application authors.
>
> For ARIA 1.1, the question is whether to:
> 1) Move forward with aria-interactive as currently proposed [1]
>
> JN: We need aria-interactive for things other than tables so I think we
> need to keep it.
>
> OR
> 2) Add table-specific roles to ARIA 1.1.
>
> JN: Even if we go this route I really don't see the need to add a whole
> bunch of roles for this. Why couldn't we just add role=table which is the
> non-interactive version of role=grid. Both of them can have all of the same
> child roles but these child roles are simply not interactive when they are
> the child of a table rather than a grid. I really don't want multiple row,
> columnheader, rowheader etc. roles in aria but am certainly fine with
> having both a table and a grid.
>
> Regards,
> James
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/matt-action1505/aria/aria.html#aria-interactive
>
> Matt King
> IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
> I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
> IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
> Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
> mattking@us.ibm.com
>
>
>
> From:        "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org> <jjwhite@ets.org>
> To:        Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS,
> Cc:        "Gunderson, Jon R" <jongund@illinois.edu>
> <jongund@illinois.edu>, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>
> <dmazzoni@google.com>, W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
> <public-pfwg@w3.org>, Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
> <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
> Date:        05/20/2015 02:43 PM
> Subject:        Re: How is aria-interactive different than tabindex=-1
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> > On May 20, 2015, at 16:43, Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com>
> <mattking@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> >
> > "Gunderson, Jon R" <jongund@illinois.edu> <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote
> on 05/20/2015 12:55:43 PM:
> >> I am wondering how the proposed aria-interactive is different from
> >> tabindex=-1?
> >> Both indicate an element has behavior, and the absence of tabindex
> >> attribute means no behavior (e.g. aria-interactive=false)
> >
> > Tabindex does not affect mapping. A gridcell in a grid with no tabindex
> specified is still a grid ... it just missing tabindex.
> > Current proposal is that an element with role grid and
> aria-interactive=false would be mapped as a static table is mapped.
>
> And that’s the contentious point in this discussion.
>
> To make the matter even more confusing to typical software developers (the
> concern that Jon rightly raised), we also have aria-readonly and
> aria-disabled. Of these, aria-disabled is closest in function to
> aria-interactive=false, except, again, for the accessibility API mapping.
>
> ARIA is already a complex specification. The direction which ARIA 1.1 is
> taking makes it even more dependent on subtle semantic distinctions that
> run the risk of leading to errors in the implementation of Web applications
> by well-intentioned ARIA non-experts. ARIA is “invisible metadata” as
> Charles McCathieNevile put it in a related context, and this exacerbates
> the problem.
>
> To be clear, I think ARIA is much needed, very successful and that it
> makes a highly valuable practical contribution to the accessibility of the
> Web. However, the Web standardization community should think deeply and
> carefully about the risks of creating an increasingly complex specification
> primarily, if not solely, for purposes of accessibility, and should strive
> to find ways of making accessible application development possible without
> requiring authors to become specialists in the subtleties of accessibility
> API semantics. Perhaps the ARIA 2.0 discussion will be a suitable
> opportunity to rework the approach and to establish foundations for
> long-term extensibility. The integration of ARIA with Web components could
> also ease the burden on application authors.
>
>
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>
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