Re: How is aria-interactive different than tabindex=-1

On 5/20/2015 3:57 PM, Matthew King wrote:
> "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote on 05/20/2015 02:35:21 PM:
> > Perhaps the ARIA 2.0 discussion will be a suitable
> > opportunity to rework the approach and to establish foundations for
> > long-term extensibility. The integration of ARIA with Web components
> > could also ease the burden on application authors.
>
> For ARIA 1.1, the question is whether to:
> 1) Move forward with aria-interactive as currently proposed [1]
JN: We need aria-interactive for things other than tables so I think we 
need to keep it.
> OR
> 2) Add table-specific roles to ARIA 1.1.
JN: Even if we go this route I really don't see the need to add a whole 
bunch of roles for this. Why couldn't we just add role=table which is 
the non-interactive version of role=grid. Both of them can have all of 
the same child roles but these child roles are simply not interactive 
when they are the child of a table rather than a grid. I really don't 
want multiple row, columnheader, rowheader etc. roles in aria but am 
certainly fine with having both a table and a grid.

Regards,
James

>
> [1] 
> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/matt-action1505/aria/aria.html#aria-interactive
>
> Matt King
> IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
> I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
> IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
> Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
> mattking@us.ibm.com
>
>
>
> From: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>
> To: Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS,
> Cc: "Gunderson, Jon R" <jongund@illinois.edu>, Dominic Mazzoni 
> <dmazzoni@google.com>, W3C WAI Protocols & Formats 
> <public-pfwg@w3.org>, Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
> Date: 05/20/2015 02:43 PM
> Subject: Re: How is aria-interactive different than tabindex=-1
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> > On May 20, 2015, at 16:43, Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> >
> > "Gunderson, Jon R" <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote on 05/20/2015 
> 12:55:43 PM:
> >> I am wondering how the proposed aria-interactive is different from
> >> tabindex=-1?
> >> Both indicate an element has behavior, and the absence of tabindex
> >> attribute means no behavior (e.g. aria-interactive=false)
> >
> > Tabindex does not affect mapping. A gridcell in a grid with no 
> tabindex specified is still a grid ... it just missing tabindex.
> > Current proposal is that an element with role grid and 
> aria-interactive=false would be mapped as a static table is mapped.
>
> And that’s the contentious point in this discussion.
>
> To make the matter even more confusing to typical software developers 
> (the concern that Jon rightly raised), we also have aria-readonly and 
> aria-disabled. Of these, aria-disabled is closest in function to 
> aria-interactive=false, except, again, for the accessibility API mapping.
>
> ARIA is already a complex specification. The direction which ARIA 1.1 
> is taking makes it even more dependent on subtle semantic distinctions 
> that run the risk of leading to errors in the implementation of Web 
> applications by well-intentioned ARIA non-experts. ARIA is “invisible 
> metadata” as Charles McCathieNevile put it in a related context, and 
> this exacerbates the problem.
>
> To be clear, I think ARIA is much needed, very successful and that it 
> makes a highly valuable practical contribution to the accessibility of 
> the Web. However, the Web standardization community should think 
> deeply and carefully about the risks of creating an increasingly 
> complex specification primarily, if not solely, for purposes of 
> accessibility, and should strive to find ways of making accessible 
> application development possible without requiring authors to become 
> specialists in the subtleties of accessibility API semantics. Perhaps 
> the ARIA 2.0 discussion will be a suitable opportunity to rework the 
> approach and to establish foundations for long-term extensibility. The 
> integration of ARIA with Web components could also ease the burden on 
> application authors.
>
>
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-- 
Regards, James

Oracle <http://www.oracle.com>
James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility
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