Re: Action-1293 Proposal

Oh, so aria-rowcount and aria-colcount is the total number of rows/cols in
the whole grid/table, got it.

In that case, we need aria-rowspan and aria-colspan *in addition* to
aria-rowcount and aria-colcount.

I understand there are cases where it's necessary to put aria-rowcount on
each cell, but that's a lot of bloat to add it to every cell most of the
time. Can we allow it to be placed on the row or table/grid element itself
and be inherited, for example:

<table role="grid" aria-colcount="16">
  <tr role="row">
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5">A</td>
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6">B</td>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7">C</td>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8">D</td>
  </tr>
...
</table>


On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Alexander Surkov <
surkov.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:

> rowspan/colspan combines cells into single cell, rowcount/colcount is
> amount of cells, both presented and missed.
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Wait, why not use rowspan / colspan? That would be consistent with HTML
>> and require less explanation. Does it actually mean anything different than
>> rowspan / colspan?
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Alexander Surkov <
>> surkov.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think I like rowcount/colcount
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:26 PM, Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Also, I would like more if aria-rsize and aria-csize were renamed to
>>>> aria-rowsize and aria-colsize as more descriptive names.
>>>>
>>>> Could these be confusing names? aria-setsize tells the number of items
>>>> in the set. Might people think that aria-rowsize is the number of items
>>>> (cells or columns) in a row? And that aria-colsize is the number of items
>>>> (cells or rows) in a column? Of course, they can read the fine spec... but
>>>> they may just be reading code.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if aria-rowcount and aria-colcount might be more descriptive?
>>>>
>>>> Matt King
>>>> IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
>>>> I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
>>>> IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
>>>> Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
>>>> mattking@us.ibm.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From:        Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
>>>> To:        Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS,
>>>> Cc:        PF <public-pfwg@w3.org>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
>>>> Date:        03/10/2015 08:16 AM
>>>> Subject:        Re: Action-1293 Proposal
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi, again. I think I have an addition to attributes definition, you
>>>> gave, which would make me ok with attributes. Let me share it with you.
>>>>
>>>> aria-rowindex
>>>>
>>>> If aria-rowindex attribute value on the item is lesser than previous
>>>> item row index then the attribute is ignored. If aria-rowsize attribute
>>>> value is lesser then subsequent items number then the attribute is ignored.
>>>>
>>>> aria-colindex
>>>>
>>>> Same text as aria-rowindex plus "aria-colindex is ignored on any cell
>>>> not belonging to the first presented row".
>>>>
>>>> Also, I would like more if aria-rsize and aria-csize were renamed to
>>>> aria-rowsize and aria-colsize as more descriptive names.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Alex.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Alexander Surkov <
>>>> *surkov.alexander@gmail.com* <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Hi. I still dislike the definition of aria-colindex
>>>>
>>>> "Defines an element's cell or gridcell column number or position in
>>>> the current set of columns table"
>>>>
>>>> since it allows to move table cells in the table. You can easily do
>>>> sorting:
>>>>
>>>> <table role="grid">
>>>>   <row>
>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">A</td>
>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">B</td>
>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">C</td>
>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">D</td>
>>>>   </row>
>>>> ...
>>>> </table>
>>>>
>>>> This statement is incorrect in case of IA2 and ATK
>>>>
>>>> "This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent."
>>>>
>>>> because every cell has to have column and row index in these APIs, so
>>>> if it's not provided by ARIA then the browser has to calculate it.
>>>>
>>>> Same concerns are applicable to aria-rowindex property.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Alex.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <
>>>> *schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>> wrote:
>>>> for role="row" add aria-rowindex and aria-rsize
>>>> for role="cell" and gridcell add aria-colindex, and aria-csize
>>>>
>>>> *aria-colindex (property)*
>>>>
>>>> Defines an element's cell or gridcell column number or position in the
>>>> current set of columns table, grid, or treegrid. See related aria-csize.
>>>>
>>>> This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent. The
>>>> default value is -1 which means indeterminant.
>>>>
>>>> The following example shows columns 5 through 8 in a set of 16.
>>>>
>>>> <table role="grid">
>>>>   <row>
>>>>      <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">A</td>
>>>>      <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">B</td>
>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">C</td>
>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">D</td>
>>>>   </row>
>>>> ...
>>>> </table>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *aria-rowindex (property)*
>>>>
>>>> Defines a *element* <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-element>'s
>>>> row number or position in the current set of rows table, grid, or treegrid.
>>>> It is not required if all row elements in the set are present in the DOM.
>>>> See related aria-rsize
>>>>
>>>> If all items in a set are present in the document structure, it is not
>>>> necessary to set this *attribute*
>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-attribute>, as the *user agent*
>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-user-agent> can automatically
>>>> calculate the set size and position for each item. However, if only a
>>>> portion of the set is present in the document structure at a given moment,
>>>> this *property* <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-property> is
>>>> needed to provide an explicit indication of an element's position.
>>>>
>>>> When applied to an element having a role of "row" the user agent must
>>>> expose the proprety to assistive technologies on all descendant cells and
>>>> gridcells in addition to the row it is applied to.
>>>>
>>>> The following example shows rows 3 through 5 in a set of 5.
>>>>
>>>> <table>
>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="3" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>   </row>
>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="4" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>   </row>
>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="5" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>   </row>
>>>> </table>
>>>>
>>>> *aria-csize (property) *
>>>>
>>>> Defines the number of columns in the current table or grid's set of
>>>> columns.
>>>>
>>>> This *property* <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-property> is
>>>> marked on the members of a set, not the container element that collects the
>>>> members of the set. To orient the user by saying an element is "item X out
>>>> of Y," the *assistive technologies*
>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-assistive-technologies> would
>>>> use X equal to the aria-colindex attribute and aria-csize equal to the
>>>> aria-colsize attribute.
>>>>
>>>> This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent. The
>>>> default value is -1 which means indeterminate.
>>>>
>>>> The following example shows items 5 through 8 in a set of 16.
>>>>
>>>> <table role="grid">
>>>>   <row>
>>>>      <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">A</td>
>>>>      <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">B</td>
>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">C</td>
>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">D</td>
>>>>   </row>
>>>> ...
>>>> </table>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *aria-rsize (property)*
>>>>
>>>> Defines the number of rows in the current set of rows within a table,
>>>> grid, or treegrid. Not required if all elements in the set are present in
>>>> the DOM. See related *aria-posinset*
>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-posinset>.
>>>>
>>>> This *property* <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-property> is
>>>> marked on rows, or cells or gridcells contained within the containing row.
>>>> To orient the user by saying an element is "item X out of Y," the *assistive
>>>> technologies*
>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-assistive-technologies> would
>>>> use X equal to the aria-rowindex *attribute*
>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-attribute> and Y equal to the
>>>> aria-rsize attribute.
>>>>
>>>> If all items in a set are present in the document structure, it is not
>>>> necessary to set this property, as the *user agent*
>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-user-agent> can automatically
>>>> calculate the set size and position for each item. However, if only a
>>>> portion of the set is present in the document structure at a given moment
>>>> (in order to reduce document size), this property is needed to provide an
>>>> explicit indication of set size.
>>>>
>>>> When applied to an element having a role of "row" the user agent must
>>>> expose the proprety to assistive technologies on all descendant cells and
>>>> gridcells unless overridden by  applying the property directly to a
>>>> descendant cell or gridcell.
>>>>
>>>> The following example shows rows 3 through 5 in a set of 5.
>>>>
>>>> <table>
>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="3" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>   </row>
>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="4" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>   </row>
>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="5" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>   </row>
>>>> </table>
>>>>
>>>> Note: need to coordinate with Steve Faulkner new native host language
>>>> semantics for TD and Table elements.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>