Re: Action-1293 Proposal

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>
wrote:

> Oh, so aria-rowcount and aria-colcount is the total number of rows/cols in
> the whole grid/table, got it.
>

yes but not always though. If that was true then there's no reason of
putting those attributes on cell or row elements. As I understand a table
may be loaded in number of parts (Joanie's point iirc), for example:

<table>
  <tr></tr> <!-- 98 rows are missed-->
  <tr> aria-rowindex="100" aria-rowcount="50"><tr> <!-- 49 rows are not yet
loaded -->
  <tr aria-rowindex="151" aria-rowcount="20"></tr> <!- 19 rows are not yet
loaded -->
</table>



>
> In that case, we need aria-rowspan and aria-colspan *in addition* to
> aria-rowcount and aria-colcount.
>

agree


>
> I understand there are cases where it's necessary to put aria-rowcount on
> each cell, but that's a lot of bloat to add it to every cell most of the
> time. Can we allow it to be placed on the row or table/grid element itself
> and be inherited, for example:
>
> <table role="grid" aria-colcount="16">
>   <tr role="row">
>      <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5">A</td>
>      <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6">B</td>
>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7">C</td>
>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8">D</td>
>   </tr>
> ...
> </table>
>

That's still ok but doesn't help for multiple column groups. Earlier in
this thread I suggested a change [1] that would address this issue. Please
let me know if it looks ok.

Thanks.
Alexander.

[1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/0025.html


>
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Alexander Surkov <
> surkov.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> rowspan/colspan combines cells into single cell, rowcount/colcount is
>> amount of cells, both presented and missed.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wait, why not use rowspan / colspan? That would be consistent with HTML
>>> and require less explanation. Does it actually mean anything different than
>>> rowspan / colspan?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Alexander Surkov <
>>> surkov.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think I like rowcount/colcount
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:26 PM, Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > Also, I would like more if aria-rsize and aria-csize were renamed to
>>>>> aria-rowsize and aria-colsize as more descriptive names.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could these be confusing names? aria-setsize tells the number of items
>>>>> in the set. Might people think that aria-rowsize is the number of items
>>>>> (cells or columns) in a row? And that aria-colsize is the number of items
>>>>> (cells or rows) in a column? Of course, they can read the fine spec... but
>>>>> they may just be reading code.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if aria-rowcount and aria-colcount might be more descriptive?
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt King
>>>>> IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
>>>>> I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
>>>>> IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
>>>>> Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
>>>>> mattking@us.ibm.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From:        Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
>>>>> To:        Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS,
>>>>> Cc:        PF <public-pfwg@w3.org>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com
>>>>> >
>>>>> Date:        03/10/2015 08:16 AM
>>>>> Subject:        Re: Action-1293 Proposal
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, again. I think I have an addition to attributes definition, you
>>>>> gave, which would make me ok with attributes. Let me share it with you.
>>>>>
>>>>> aria-rowindex
>>>>>
>>>>> If aria-rowindex attribute value on the item is lesser than previous
>>>>> item row index then the attribute is ignored. If aria-rowsize attribute
>>>>> value is lesser then subsequent items number then the attribute is ignored.
>>>>>
>>>>> aria-colindex
>>>>>
>>>>> Same text as aria-rowindex plus "aria-colindex is ignored on any cell
>>>>> not belonging to the first presented row".
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I would like more if aria-rsize and aria-csize were renamed to
>>>>> aria-rowsize and aria-colsize as more descriptive names.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> Alex.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Alexander Surkov <
>>>>> *surkov.alexander@gmail.com* <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi. I still dislike the definition of aria-colindex
>>>>>
>>>>> "Defines an element's cell or gridcell column number or position in
>>>>> the current set of columns table"
>>>>>
>>>>> since it allows to move table cells in the table. You can easily do
>>>>> sorting:
>>>>>
>>>>> <table role="grid">
>>>>>   <row>
>>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">A</td>
>>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">B</td>
>>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">C</td>
>>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">D</td>
>>>>>   </row>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> </table>
>>>>>
>>>>> This statement is incorrect in case of IA2 and ATK
>>>>>
>>>>> "This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent."
>>>>>
>>>>> because every cell has to have column and row index in these APIs, so
>>>>> if it's not provided by ARIA then the browser has to calculate it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same concerns are applicable to aria-rowindex property.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> Alex.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <
>>>>> *schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>> wrote:
>>>>> for role="row" add aria-rowindex and aria-rsize
>>>>> for role="cell" and gridcell add aria-colindex, and aria-csize
>>>>>
>>>>> *aria-colindex (property)*
>>>>>
>>>>> Defines an element's cell or gridcell column number or position in the
>>>>> current set of columns table, grid, or treegrid. See related aria-csize.
>>>>>
>>>>> This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent. The
>>>>> default value is -1 which means indeterminant.
>>>>>
>>>>> The following example shows columns 5 through 8 in a set of 16.
>>>>>
>>>>> <table role="grid">
>>>>>   <row>
>>>>>      <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">A</td>
>>>>>      <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">B</td>
>>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">C</td>
>>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">D</td>
>>>>>   </row>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> </table>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *aria-rowindex (property)*
>>>>>
>>>>> Defines a *element* <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-element>'s
>>>>> row number or position in the current set of rows table, grid, or treegrid.
>>>>> It is not required if all row elements in the set are present in the DOM.
>>>>> See related aria-rsize
>>>>>
>>>>> If all items in a set are present in the document structure, it is not
>>>>> necessary to set this *attribute*
>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-attribute>, as the *user
>>>>> agent* <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-user-agent> can
>>>>> automatically calculate the set size and position for each item. However,
>>>>> if only a portion of the set is present in the document structure at a
>>>>> given moment, this *property*
>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-property> is needed to
>>>>> provide an explicit indication of an element's position.
>>>>>
>>>>> When applied to an element having a role of "row" the user agent must
>>>>> expose the proprety to assistive technologies on all descendant cells and
>>>>> gridcells in addition to the row it is applied to.
>>>>>
>>>>> The following example shows rows 3 through 5 in a set of 5.
>>>>>
>>>>> <table>
>>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="3" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>>   </row>
>>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="4" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>>   </row>
>>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="5" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>>   </row>
>>>>> </table>
>>>>>
>>>>> *aria-csize (property) *
>>>>>
>>>>> Defines the number of columns in the current table or grid's set of
>>>>> columns.
>>>>>
>>>>> This *property* <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-property> is
>>>>> marked on the members of a set, not the container element that collects the
>>>>> members of the set. To orient the user by saying an element is "item X out
>>>>> of Y," the *assistive technologies*
>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-assistive-technologies> would
>>>>> use X equal to the aria-colindex attribute and aria-csize equal to the
>>>>> aria-colsize attribute.
>>>>>
>>>>> This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent. The
>>>>> default value is -1 which means indeterminate.
>>>>>
>>>>> The following example shows items 5 through 8 in a set of 16.
>>>>>
>>>>> <table role="grid">
>>>>>   <row>
>>>>>      <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">A</td>
>>>>>      <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">B</td>
>>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">C</td>
>>>>>     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">D</td>
>>>>>   </row>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> </table>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *aria-rsize (property)*
>>>>>
>>>>> Defines the number of rows in the current set of rows within a table,
>>>>> grid, or treegrid. Not required if all elements in the set are present in
>>>>> the DOM. See related *aria-posinset*
>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-posinset>.
>>>>>
>>>>> This *property* <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-property> is
>>>>> marked on rows, or cells or gridcells contained within the containing row.
>>>>> To orient the user by saying an element is "item X out of Y," the *assistive
>>>>> technologies*
>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-assistive-technologies> would
>>>>> use X equal to the aria-rowindex *attribute*
>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-attribute> and Y equal to the
>>>>> aria-rsize attribute.
>>>>>
>>>>> If all items in a set are present in the document structure, it is not
>>>>> necessary to set this property, as the *user agent*
>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dfn-user-agent> can automatically
>>>>> calculate the set size and position for each item. However, if only a
>>>>> portion of the set is present in the document structure at a given moment
>>>>> (in order to reduce document size), this property is needed to provide an
>>>>> explicit indication of set size.
>>>>>
>>>>> When applied to an element having a role of "row" the user agent must
>>>>> expose the proprety to assistive technologies on all descendant cells and
>>>>> gridcells unless overridden by  applying the property directly to a
>>>>> descendant cell or gridcell.
>>>>>
>>>>> The following example shows rows 3 through 5 in a set of 5.
>>>>>
>>>>> <table>
>>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="3" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>>   </row>
>>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="4" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>>   </row>
>>>>>   <row aria-rowindex="5" aria-rsize="5">
>>>>>      <td>A</td>
>>>>>      <td>B</td>
>>>>>      <td>C</td>
>>>>>   </row>
>>>>> </table>
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: need to coordinate with Steve Faulkner new native host language
>>>>> semantics for TD and Table elements.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>