Re: Action-1293 Proposal

Hi Dominic, Alex, 

Yes, Joanie already has an action to add row and column spans. It would 
also be applied to grid. 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1403

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger



From:   Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>
To:     Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
Cc:     Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS, Joanmarie Diggs 
<jdiggs@igalia.com>, PF <public-pfwg@w3.org>, Richard 
Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Date:   03/10/2015 02:19 PM
Subject:        Re: Action-1293 Proposal



Oh, so aria-rowcount and aria-colcount is the total number of rows/cols in 
the whole grid/table, got it.

In that case, we need aria-rowspan and aria-colspan *in addition* to 
aria-rowcount and aria-colcount.

I understand there are cases where it's necessary to put aria-rowcount on 
each cell, but that's a lot of bloat to add it to every cell most of the 
time. Can we allow it to be placed on the row or table/grid element itself 
and be inherited, for example:

<table role="grid" aria-colcount="16">
  <tr role="row">
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5">A</td>  
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6">B</td> 
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7">C</td> 
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8">D</td> 
  </tr>
...
</table>


On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Alexander Surkov <
surkov.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
rowspan/colspan combines cells into single cell, rowcount/colcount is 
amount of cells, both presented and missed.

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com> 
wrote:
Wait, why not use rowspan / colspan? That would be consistent with HTML 
and require less explanation. Does it actually mean anything different 
than rowspan / colspan?

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Alexander Surkov <
surkov.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
I think I like rowcount/colcount

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:26 PM, Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Also, I would like more if aria-rsize and aria-csize were renamed to 
aria-rowsize and aria-colsize as more descriptive names.

Could these be confusing names? aria-setsize tells the number of items in 
the set. Might people think that aria-rowsize is the number of items 
(cells or columns) in a row? And that aria-colsize is the number of items 
(cells or rows) in a column? Of course, they can read the fine spec... but 
they may just be reading code.

I wonder if aria-rowcount and aria-colcount might be more descriptive?

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398 
mattking@us.ibm.com



From:        Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
To:        Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, 
Cc:        PF <public-pfwg@w3.org>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
Date:        03/10/2015 08:16 AM
Subject:        Re: Action-1293 Proposal




Hi, again. I think I have an addition to attributes definition, you gave, 
which would make me ok with attributes. Let me share it with you.

aria-rowindex

If aria-rowindex attribute value on the item is lesser than previous item 
row index then the attribute is ignored. If aria-rowsize attribute value 
is lesser then subsequent items number then the attribute is ignored.

aria-colindex

Same text as aria-rowindex plus "aria-colindex is ignored on any cell not 
belonging to the first presented row".

Also, I would like more if aria-rsize and aria-csize were renamed to 
aria-rowsize and aria-colsize as more descriptive names.

Thanks.
Alex.


On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Alexander Surkov <
surkov.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi. I still dislike the definition of aria-colindex 

"Defines an element's cell or gridcell column number or position in the 
current set of columns table"

since it allows to move table cells in the table. You can easily do 
sorting:

<table role="grid">
  <row>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">A</td> 
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">B</td> 
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">C</td> 
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">D</td> 
  </row>
...
</table> 

This statement is incorrect in case of IA2 and ATK

"This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent."

because every cell has to have column and row index in these APIs, so if 
it's not provided by ARIA then the browser has to calculate it.

Same concerns are applicable to aria-rowindex property.

Thanks.
Alex.

On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> 
wrote:
for role="row" add aria-rowindex and aria-rsize
for role="cell" and gridcell add aria-colindex, and aria-csize

aria-colindex (property) 
Defines an element's cell or gridcell column number or position in the 
current set of columns table, grid, or treegrid. See related aria-csize. 
This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent. The 
default value is -1 which means indeterminant. 
The following example shows columns 5 through 8 in a set of 16. 
<table role="grid">
  <row>
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">A</td> 
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">B</td> 
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">C</td> 
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">D</td> 
  </row>
...
</table>   

aria-rowindex (property)

Defines a element's row number or position in the current set of rows 
table, grid, or treegrid. It is not required if all row elements in the 
set are present in the DOM. See related aria-rsize

If all items in a set are present in the document structure, it is not 
necessary to set this attribute, as the user agent can automatically 
calculate the set size and position for each item. However, if only a 
portion of the set is present in the document structure at a given moment, 
this property is needed to provide an explicit indication of an element's 
position.

When applied to an element having a role of "row" the user agent must 
expose the proprety to assistive technologies on all descendant cells and 
gridcells in addition to the row it is applied to.  
The following example shows rows 3 through 5 in a set of 5. 
<table>
  <row aria-rowindex="3" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
  <row aria-rowindex="4" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
  <row aria-rowindex="5" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
</table>  

aria-csize (property) 

Defines the number of columns in the current table or grid's set of 
columns. 
This property is marked on the members of a set, not the container element 
that collects the members of the set. To orient the user by saying an 
element is "item X out of Y," the assistive technologies would use X equal 
to the aria-colindex attribute and aria-csize equal to the 
aria-colsize attribute.
This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent. The 
default value is -1 which means indeterminate. 
The following example shows items 5 through 8 in a set of 16. 
<table role="grid">
  <row>
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">A</td>  
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">B</td> 
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">C</td> 
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">D</td> 
  </row>
...
</table>   

aria-rsize (property)

Defines the number of rows in the current set of rows within a table, 
grid, or treegrid. Not required if all elements in the set are present in 
the DOM. See related aria-posinset.
This property is marked on rows, or cells or gridcells contained within 
the containing row. To orient the user by saying an element is "item X out 
of Y," the assistive technologies would use X equal to the aria-rowindex 
attribute and Y equal to the aria-rsize attribute. 
If all items in a set are present in the document structure, it is not 
necessary to set this property, as the user agent can automatically 
calculate the set size and position for each item. However, if only a 
portion of the set is present in the document structure at a given moment 
(in order to reduce document size), this property is needed to provide an 
explicit indication of set size.

When applied to an element having a role of "row" the user agent must 
expose the proprety to assistive technologies on all descendant cells and 
gridcells unless overridden by  applying the property directly to a 
descendant cell or gridcell.  
The following example shows rows 3 through 5 in a set of 5. 
<table>
  <row aria-rowindex="3" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
  <row aria-rowindex="4" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
  <row aria-rowindex="5" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
</table>  

Note: need to coordinate with Steve Faulkner new native host language 
semantics for TD and Table elements.  


Rich Schwerdtfeger

Received on Sunday, 15 March 2015 17:07:32 UTC