- From: Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL <ryladog@gmail.com>
- Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 12:24:13 -0400
- To: "'Janina Sajka'" <janina@rednote.net>
- Cc: "'W3C WAI Protocols & Formats'" <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Janina, Thanks. Yes I read the minutes. This concerns me even if it is relegated to 2.0 - for exactly the same reason that James gave - this has been heavily implemented and has very wide support and is one of the few well known and used features of ARIA. This horse is out of the gate IMHO. Thanks * katie * Katie Haritos-Shea Senior Accessibility SME (WCAG/Section 508/ADA/AODA) Cell: 703-371-5545 | ryladog@gmail.com | Oakton, VA | LinkedIn Profile | Office: 703-371-5545 -----Original Message----- From: Janina Sajka [mailto:janina@rednote.net] Sent: Friday, July 3, 2015 6:11 AM To: Katie Haritos-Shea Cc: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats Subject: Re: ARIA Minutes for 2 July Katie Haritos-Shea writes: > Excuse me for chiming up now, but why are you considering deprecating > role=presentation? > Note that the question of deprecating role=presentation has been deferred as an issue for the ARIA-2.0 timeframe. The reason for considering deprecation is that role=presentation is no longer the preferred approach. The reason for deferring consideration until the ARIA-2.0 timeframe is that role=presentation is so very widely implemented today. All this is reflected, however briefly, in ARIA minutes from 2 July available at: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#item04 Janina > * katie * > > Katie Haritos-Shea @ GMAIL > On Jul 2, 2015 2:09 PM, "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net> wrote: > > > Minutes from the ARIA Task Force teleconference of 2 July are > > provided below as text, and are available as hypertext at: > > > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html > > > > W3C > > > > - DRAFT - > > > > Protocols and Formats Working > > Group Teleconference > > > > 02 Jul 2015 > > > > See also: IRC log > > > > Attendees > > > > Present > > Janina, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, > > Joanie_Diggs, STefan_Schnabel, MichaelC, Bryan, Bryan_Garaventa, > > JamesN > > > > Regrets > > Chair > > Rich > > > > Scribe > > janina > > > > Contents > > > > * Topics > > 1. Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer > > 2. Switch Role ... > > 3. Action-1417 > > 4. issue-717? > > 5. ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required > > attribute for > > 6. aria-uinvalid issue-651 > > * Summary of Action Items > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > ______________________________________________ > > > > <trackbot> Date: 02 July 2015 > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0016.html > > > > <scribe> scribe: janina > > > > Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer > > > > <clown> > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0181.html > > > > action-1493? > > > > <trackbot> action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text > > allowing šimplicit value for roleš to provide default > > values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493 > > > > rs: I see no issues with your text, Joseph > > > > js: I was asked to add to Sec 7.6 attrib processing > > ... Discussed Mar 26 > > ... Aslo what to do for default values > > ... Email for review out Monday > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> > > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#state_propert > > y_processing > > > > js: Only one response > > > > rs: Anyone not looked at this? Please do so now > > ... Any objections? > > > > RESOLUTION: Adopt Joseph's proposal for Action-1493 > > > > rs: Did you change other things, too? Slider? > > > > js: ARIA- values are required on sliders, spin button ... > > > > <clown> > > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#slider > > > > js: summarizes changes .... > > > > rs: Is there text in Core for this? > > > > js: Will be fixing > > ... Author Errors sec has values, but needs updating > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph modify, scrollbar, > > spinbutton and Slider to update author error section for > > default values [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action01] > > > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-1670 - Modify, scrollbar, spinbutton > > and slider to update author error section for default > > values [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09]. > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1670? > > > > <trackbot> Action-1670 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify, > > scrollbar, spinbutton and slider to update author error section > > for default values -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1670 > > > > jn: What about infinitely scrollable? > > > > js: Listed as required state -- > > ... This is already in ARIA-1.0 > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1493? > > > > <trackbot> Action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text > > allowing šimplicit value for roleš to provide default > > values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493 > > > > <jamesn> ISSUE: need to allow scrollbars to specify an unknown > > value for aria-valuemax > > > > <trackbot> Created ISSUE-718 - Need to allow scrollbars to > > specify an unknown value for aria-valuemax. Please complete > > additional details at < > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/718/edit>. > > > > mc: Do we need Joanie to do the merge? What about Joseph? > > > > js: Sure > > ... Slight chance not by Monday > > > > <jamesn> fyi I just updated issue-718 I just logged to ARIA 2.0 > > > > mc: If Monday, that's OK, but need to know if issue > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1606 > > > > RESOLUTION: Close Action-1606 > > > > js: Note new Issue 718 > > > > jd: Don't think it needs unknown max, just that the max keeps changing > > ... But I always think desktop > > > > jn: That may indeed be OK > > ... And we simply need to document that > > > > action-1591? > > > > <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role > > doesn't list aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 -- > > PENDINGREVIEW > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591 > > > > <clown> action-1591? > > > > <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role > > doesn't list aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 -- > > PENDINGREVIEW > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591 > > > > <clown> > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0177.html > > > > jd: Believe I have this in a branch, but no responses > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> > > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#aria-readonly > > > > jd: Believe I changed some inheritance > > > > <clown> > > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#radio > > > > rs: Looks fine. Any issues? > > > > jd: Asking to re-consider inheritance ... > > > > rs: Should be a separate Action > > > > jd: Would think it useful for the heartbeat > > > > rs: Won't have time to review > > ... We need to review it separately. Can we tie to Action? > > > > jd: Yes, will do > > > > RESOLUTION: Action 1591 is complete > > > > Switch Role ... > > > > jd: I believe Alex was asking for string substitution ... > > > > rs: So, no resolution yet ... > > ... Should state mixed value is invalid and will default to false > > ... Then we flag in test tools > > ... Current text says "not supported," but should say "invalid" > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> Change this text: > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is not supported, and user > > agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to > > false for this role. > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> To: > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is invalid, and user > > agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to false for > > this role. > > > > Action-1592? > > > > <trackbot> Action-1592 -- Joanmarie Diggs to switch role > > shouldn't say about mixed value mapping. -- due 2015-03-04 -- > > OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1592 > > > > Also has associated Issue > > > > scribe note: Above ediscussion is on this action-1592 > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph address error handling in > > aria-checked with a value of “mixed†for a switch role > > [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action02] > > > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-1671 - Address error handling in > > aria-checked with a value of “mixed†for a switch role [on > > Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09]. > > > > rs: Anything with localized role description? > > > > jd: Believe pending review > > > > Action-1417 > > > > RESOLUTION: Action-1417 is complete and also close Issue-636 > > > > issue-171? > > > > <trackbot> issue-171 -- Menu discuss separator and group -- > > closed > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/171 > > > > oops > > > > <clown> issue=717 > > > > issue-717? > > > > issue-717? > > > > <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and > > aria-dropeffect? -- open > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717 > > > > <clown> issue-717 > > > > <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and > > aria-dropeffect? -- open > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717 > > > > rs: Used for GWT > > ... Should we deprecate? > > > > js: Also Fluid, but only in demos > > ... Also GPII ... > > > > See new Issue-719 > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/719 > > > > <clown> FYI: > > http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaGrabbed > > True > > > > jd: Shouldn't we also deprecate presentation role? > > > > rs: Indeed! > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Michael Mark aria-grabbed, > > aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and > > provide reference definition of derprecated [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action03] > > > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-1672 - Mark aria-grabbed, > > aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and > > provide reference definition of derprecated [on Michael Cooper - > > due 2015-07-09]. > > > > jn: Why deprecate presentation? > > ... Are we ever dropping support for it? > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> action-1672? > > > > <trackbot> action-1672 -- Michael Cooper to Mark aria-grabbed, > > aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated > > and provide reference definition of derprecated -- due 2015-07-09 > > -- OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1672 > > > > jn: Concern on retro support for none ... still advise > > presentation > > > > General concern that "presentation" is far too widely used > > > > mc: So, perhaps an issue to consider during 2.0? > > > > <clown> issue-683 > > > > <trackbot> issue-683 -- The aria-level attribute is not required > > for role=heading within the spec, but should be. -- > > open > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/683 > > > > ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required attribute for > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> role="heading". Also discuss values of "auto" > > and "subsection". > > > > rs: Not complete consensus, but ... > > > > jn: Agree that's the consensus, even though I don't participate in it! > > > > rs: auto and subsection values, would 2.0 be soone enough? > > > > mc: Yes > > > > RESOLUTION: ARIA-LEVEL is required for role=heading > > > > <jnurthen> just for the minutes - I still disagree with this but > > accept the consensus opinion > > > > rs: Proposing to add Issue for auto and subsection for 2.0 > > > > <Stefasn> I agree > > > > <scribe> New issue-721 > > > > jd: Notes that we need default value -- consensus seemed to be > > thatit's "2" > > > > rs: Can we live with that? > > > > [no objection] > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: aria-level defaults to a value > > of “2†for role=“heading†> > > > RESOLUTION: ARIA-Level defaults to value of 2 for role=heading > > > > action-1657? > > > > <trackbot> action-1657 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Make aria-level a > > required attribute for role=“heading†-- due 2015-06-25 > > -- OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1657 > > > > rs: Updating the action > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph modify the Core mapping > > spec. to handle the error condition of when aria-level is > > not present for role “heading†and it defaults to “2†> > [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action04] > > > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-1673 - Modify the core mapping spec. to > > handle the error condition of when aria-level is not > > present for role “heading†and it defaults to “2†[on > > Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09]. > > > > aria-uinvalid issue-651 > > > > issue-651? > > > > <trackbot> issue-651 -- Allow aria-invalid to specify more types > > of errors including custom errors -- raised > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651 > > > > rs: need to treat error differently from help > > ... also want to categorize importance > > ... we could mark role=error and provide importance level ... one > > proposal > > > > jd: don't believe this needs to be complicated > > ... aria-invalid is currently string > > ... require that author needs to localize whatever they put ... > > > > rs: not a string > > > > js: tokenized > > ... value outsied of tokens mapps to "true" > > > > <clown> > > http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaInvalid > > Unknown > > > > jd: I propose "pass it along," screen reader will speak it > > > > js: 1.0 sayse "expose as given" > > ... jc said can't do > > > > rs: aren't we trying to overload this? > > ... point is to show the actual message, whatever it is > > ... so another relationship? another role? > > ... could have importance levels > > ... could be live region ... another approach > > > > jd: like live > > ... but still thinking > > > > rs: live has polite, assertive, off. is that enough? > > ... Thoughts? > > > > <Stefasn> Don't mix things > > > > js: cool with aria-error to point to it > > > > rs: should they be live regions? > > > > js: do they come and go? > > > > rs: live not necessarily > > ... option is to put a proposl on list for further consideration > > ... certainly errors should be announced > > > > jn: but not necessarily always > > > > <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-live > > > > jd: Like the live region, but concerned how connected > > > > rs: We're proposing an area where errors are presented, and this > > area is live region > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich Write proposal to the list > > for error message referencs to live region [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action05] > > > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-1674 - Write proposal to the list for > > error message referencs to live region [on Richard > > Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-07-09]. > > > > Summary of Action Items > > > > [NEW] ACTION: Joseph address error handling in aria-checked with > > a value of “mixed†for a switch role [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action02] > > [NEW] ACTION: Joseph modify the Core mapping spec. to handle the > > error condition of when aria-level is not present for > > role “heading†and it defaults to “2†[recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action04] > > [NEW] ACTION: Joseph modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and Slider to > > update author error section for default values > > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action01] > > [NEW] ACTION: Michael Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the > > presentation role as deprecated and provide reference > > definition of derprecated [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action03] > > [NEW] ACTION: Rich Write proposal to the list for error message > > referencs to live region [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action05] > > > > [End of minutes] > > > > Found Scribe: janina > > Present: Janina Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger Joanie_Diggs > > STefan_Schnabel MichaelC Bryan Bryan_Garaventa JamesN Found Date: 02 > > Jul 2015 Guessing minutes URL: > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html > > People with action items: joseph michael modify proposal rich > > scrollbar slider spinbutton write > > > > -- > > > > Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 > > sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net > > Email: janina@rednote.net > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > > Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf > > > > > > -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net Email: janina@rednote.net Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
Received on Friday, 3 July 2015 16:24:48 UTC