- From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
- Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 06:10:30 -0400
- To: Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com>
- Cc: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Katie Haritos-Shea writes: > Excuse me for chiming up now, but why are you considering deprecating > role=presentation? > Note that the question of deprecating role=presentation has been deferred as an issue for the ARIA-2.0 timeframe. The reason for considering deprecation is that role=presentation is no longer the preferred approach. The reason for deferring consideration until the ARIA-2.0 timeframe is that role=presentation is so very widely implemented today. All this is reflected, however briefly, in ARIA minutes from 2 July available at: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#item04 Janina > * katie * > > Katie Haritos-Shea @ GMAIL > On Jul 2, 2015 2:09 PM, "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net> wrote: > > > Minutes from the ARIA Task Force teleconference of 2 July are provided > > below > > as text, and are available as hypertext at: > > > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html > > > > W3C > > > > - DRAFT - > > > > Protocols and Formats Working Group > > Teleconference > > > > 02 Jul 2015 > > > > See also: IRC log > > > > Attendees > > > > Present > > Janina, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanie_Diggs, > > STefan_Schnabel, MichaelC, Bryan, Bryan_Garaventa, > > JamesN > > > > Regrets > > Chair > > Rich > > > > Scribe > > janina > > > > Contents > > > > * Topics > > 1. Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer > > 2. Switch Role ... > > 3. Action-1417 > > 4. issue-717? > > 5. ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required attribute > > for > > 6. aria-uinvalid issue-651 > > * Summary of Action Items > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > <trackbot> Date: 02 July 2015 > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0016.html > > > > <scribe> scribe: janina > > > > Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer > > > > <clown> > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0181.html > > > > action-1493? > > > > <trackbot> action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text > > allowing šimplicit value for roleš to provide default > > values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493 > > > > rs: I see no issues with your text, Joseph > > > > js: I was asked to add to Sec 7.6 attrib processing > > ... Discussed Mar 26 > > ... Aslo what to do for default values > > ... Email for review out Monday > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> > > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#state_property_processing > > > > js: Only one response > > > > rs: Anyone not looked at this? Please do so now > > ... Any objections? > > > > RESOLUTION: Adopt Joseph's proposal for Action-1493 > > > > rs: Did you change other things, too? Slider? > > > > js: ARIA- values are required on sliders, spin button ... > > > > <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#slider > > > > js: summarizes changes .... > > > > rs: Is there text in Core for this? > > > > js: Will be fixing > > ... Author Errors sec has values, but needs updating > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and > > Slider to update author error section for > > default values [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action01] > > > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-1670 - Modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and > > slider to update author error section for default > > values [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09]. > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1670? > > > > <trackbot> Action-1670 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify, scrollbar, > > spinbutton and slider to update author error section > > for default values -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1670 > > > > jn: What about infinitely scrollable? > > > > js: Listed as required state -- > > ... This is already in ARIA-1.0 > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1493? > > > > <trackbot> Action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text > > allowing šimplicit value for roleš to provide default > > values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493 > > > > <jamesn> ISSUE: need to allow scrollbars to specify an unknown value > > for aria-valuemax > > > > <trackbot> Created ISSUE-718 - Need to allow scrollbars to specify an > > unknown value for aria-valuemax. Please complete > > additional details at < > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/718/edit>. > > > > mc: Do we need Joanie to do the merge? What about Joseph? > > > > js: Sure > > ... Slight chance not by Monday > > > > <jamesn> fyi I just updated issue-718 I just logged to ARIA 2.0 > > > > mc: If Monday, that's OK, but need to know if issue > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1606 > > > > RESOLUTION: Close Action-1606 > > > > js: Note new Issue 718 > > > > jd: Don't think it needs unknown max, just that the max keeps changing > > ... But I always think desktop > > > > jn: That may indeed be OK > > ... And we simply need to document that > > > > action-1591? > > > > <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role doesn't list > > aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 -- > > PENDINGREVIEW > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591 > > > > <clown> action-1591? > > > > <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role doesn't list > > aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 -- > > PENDINGREVIEW > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591 > > > > <clown> > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0177.html > > > > jd: Believe I have this in a branch, but no responses > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> > > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#aria-readonly > > > > jd: Believe I changed some inheritance > > > > <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#radio > > > > rs: Looks fine. Any issues? > > > > jd: Asking to re-consider inheritance ... > > > > rs: Should be a separate Action > > > > jd: Would think it useful for the heartbeat > > > > rs: Won't have time to review > > ... We need to review it separately. Can we tie to Action? > > > > jd: Yes, will do > > > > RESOLUTION: Action 1591 is complete > > > > Switch Role ... > > > > jd: I believe Alex was asking for string substitution ... > > > > rs: So, no resolution yet ... > > ... Should state mixed value is invalid and will default to false > > ... Then we flag in test tools > > ... Current text says "not supported," but should say "invalid" > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> Change this text: > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is not supported, and user > > agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to > > false for this role. > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> To: > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is invalid, and user agents MUST > > treat a mixed value as equivalent to false for > > this role. > > > > Action-1592? > > > > <trackbot> Action-1592 -- Joanmarie Diggs to switch role shouldn't say > > about mixed value mapping. -- due 2015-03-04 -- > > OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1592 > > > > Also has associated Issue > > > > scribe note: Above ediscussion is on this action-1592 > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph address error handling in > > aria-checked with a value of “mixed†for a switch role > > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action02] > > > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-1671 - Address error handling in aria-checked > > with a value of “mixed†for a switch role [on > > Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09]. > > > > rs: Anything with localized role description? > > > > jd: Believe pending review > > > > Action-1417 > > > > RESOLUTION: Action-1417 is complete and also close Issue-636 > > > > issue-171? > > > > <trackbot> issue-171 -- Menu discuss separator and group -- closed > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/171 > > > > oops > > > > <clown> issue=717 > > > > issue-717? > > > > issue-717? > > > > <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and > > aria-dropeffect? -- open > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717 > > > > <clown> issue-717 > > > > <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and > > aria-dropeffect? -- open > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717 > > > > rs: Used for GWT > > ... Should we deprecate? > > > > js: Also Fluid, but only in demos > > ... Also GPII ... > > > > See new Issue-719 > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/719 > > > > <clown> FYI: > > http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaGrabbedTrue > > > > jd: Shouldn't we also deprecate presentation role? > > > > rs: Indeed! > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Michael Mark aria-grabbed, > > aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and > > provide reference definition of derprecated [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action03] > > > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-1672 - Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, > > and the presentation role as deprecated and > > provide reference definition of derprecated [on Michael Cooper - due > > 2015-07-09]. > > > > jn: Why deprecate presentation? > > ... Are we ever dropping support for it? > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> action-1672? > > > > <trackbot> action-1672 -- Michael Cooper to Mark aria-grabbed, > > aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated > > and provide reference definition of derprecated -- due 2015-07-09 -- > > OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1672 > > > > jn: Concern on retro support for none ... still advise presentation > > > > General concern that "presentation" is far too widely used > > > > mc: So, perhaps an issue to consider during 2.0? > > > > <clown> issue-683 > > > > <trackbot> issue-683 -- The aria-level attribute is not required for > > role=heading within the spec, but should be. -- > > open > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/683 > > > > ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required attribute for > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> role="heading". Also discuss values of "auto" > > and "subsection". > > > > rs: Not complete consensus, but ... > > > > jn: Agree that's the consensus, even though I don't participate in it! > > > > rs: auto and subsection values, would 2.0 be soone enough? > > > > mc: Yes > > > > RESOLUTION: ARIA-LEVEL is required for role=heading > > > > <jnurthen> just for the minutes - I still disagree with this but accept > > the consensus opinion > > > > rs: Proposing to add Issue for auto and subsection for 2.0 > > > > <Stefasn> I agree > > > > <scribe> New issue-721 > > > > jd: Notes that we need default value -- consensus seemed to be thatit's > > "2" > > > > rs: Can we live with that? > > > > [no objection] > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: aria-level defaults to a value of > > “2†for role=“heading†> > > > RESOLUTION: ARIA-Level defaults to value of 2 for role=heading > > > > action-1657? > > > > <trackbot> action-1657 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Make aria-level a required > > attribute for role=“heading†-- due 2015-06-25 > > -- OPEN > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1657 > > > > rs: Updating the action > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph modify the Core mapping spec. to > > handle the error condition of when aria-level is > > not present for role “heading†and it defaults to “2†[recorded > > in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action04] > > > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-1673 - Modify the core mapping spec. to > > handle the error condition of when aria-level is not > > present for role “heading†and it defaults to “2†[on Joseph > > Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09]. > > > > aria-uinvalid issue-651 > > > > issue-651? > > > > <trackbot> issue-651 -- Allow aria-invalid to specify more types of > > errors including custom errors -- raised > > > > <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651 > > > > rs: need to treat error differently from help > > ... also want to categorize importance > > ... we could mark role=error and provide importance level ... one > > proposal > > > > jd: don't believe this needs to be complicated > > ... aria-invalid is currently string > > ... require that author needs to localize whatever they put ... > > > > rs: not a string > > > > js: tokenized > > ... value outsied of tokens mapps to "true" > > > > <clown> > > http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaInvalidUnknown > > > > jd: I propose "pass it along," screen reader will speak it > > > > js: 1.0 sayse "expose as given" > > ... jc said can't do > > > > rs: aren't we trying to overload this? > > ... point is to show the actual message, whatever it is > > ... so another relationship? another role? > > ... could have importance levels > > ... could be live region ... another approach > > > > jd: like live > > ... but still thinking > > > > rs: live has polite, assertive, off. is that enough? > > ... Thoughts? > > > > <Stefasn> Don't mix things > > > > js: cool with aria-error to point to it > > > > rs: should they be live regions? > > > > js: do they come and go? > > > > rs: live not necessarily > > ... option is to put a proposl on list for further consideration > > ... certainly errors should be announced > > > > jn: but not necessarily always > > > > <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-live > > > > jd: Like the live region, but concerned how connected > > > > rs: We're proposing an area where errors are presented, and this area > > is live region > > > > <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich Write proposal to the list for > > error message referencs to live region [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action05] > > > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-1674 - Write proposal to the list for error > > message referencs to live region [on Richard > > Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-07-09]. > > > > Summary of Action Items > > > > [NEW] ACTION: Joseph address error handling in aria-checked with a > > value of “mixed†for a switch role [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action02] > > [NEW] ACTION: Joseph modify the Core mapping spec. to handle the error > > condition of when aria-level is not present for > > role “heading†and it defaults to “2†[recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action04] > > [NEW] ACTION: Joseph modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and Slider to update > > author error section for default values > > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action01] > > [NEW] ACTION: Michael Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the > > presentation role as deprecated and provide reference > > definition of derprecated [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action03] > > [NEW] ACTION: Rich Write proposal to the list for error message > > referencs to live region [recorded in > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action05] > > > > [End of minutes] > > > > Found Scribe: janina > > Present: Janina Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger Joanie_Diggs > > STefan_Schnabel MichaelC Bryan Bryan_Garaventa JamesN > > Found Date: 02 Jul 2015 > > Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html > > People with action items: joseph michael modify proposal rich scrollbar > > slider spinbutton write > > > > -- > > > > Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 > > sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net > > Email: janina@rednote.net > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > > Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf > > > > > > -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net Email: janina@rednote.net Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
Received on Friday, 3 July 2015 10:10:54 UTC