- From: Michiel Bijl <michiel@agosto.nl>
- Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2015 00:03:58 +0100
- To: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
- Cc: Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com>, W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
What is the preferred approach? —Michiel > On 03 Jul 2015, at 11:10, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote: > > Katie Haritos-Shea writes: >> Excuse me for chiming up now, but why are you considering deprecating >> role=presentation? > > Note that the question of deprecating role=presentation has been > deferred as an issue for the ARIA-2.0 timeframe. > > The reason for considering deprecation is that role=presentation is no > longer the preferred approach. > > The reason for deferring consideration until the ARIA-2.0 timeframe is > that role=presentation is so very widely implemented today. > > All this is reflected, however briefly, in ARIA minutes from 2 July available at: > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#item04 > > Janina > >> * katie * >> >> Katie Haritos-Shea @ GMAIL >>> On Jul 2, 2015 2:09 PM, "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net> wrote: >>> >>> Minutes from the ARIA Task Force teleconference of 2 July are provided >>> below >>> as text, and are available as hypertext at: >>> >>> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html >>> >>> W3C >>> >>> - DRAFT - >>> >>> Protocols and Formats Working Group >>> Teleconference >>> >>> 02 Jul 2015 >>> >>> See also: IRC log >>> >>> Attendees >>> >>> Present >>> Janina, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanie_Diggs, >>> STefan_Schnabel, MichaelC, Bryan, Bryan_Garaventa, >>> JamesN >>> >>> Regrets >>> Chair >>> Rich >>> >>> Scribe >>> janina >>> >>> Contents >>> >>> * Topics >>> 1. Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer >>> 2. Switch Role ... >>> 3. Action-1417 >>> 4. issue-717? >>> 5. ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required attribute >>> for >>> 6. aria-uinvalid issue-651 >>> * Summary of Action Items >>> >>> __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> <trackbot> Date: 02 July 2015 >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> >>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0016.html >>> >>> <scribe> scribe: janina >>> >>> Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer >>> >>> <clown> >>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0181.html >>> >>> action-1493? >>> >>> <trackbot> action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text >>> allowing šimplicit value for roleš to provide default >>> values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493 >>> >>> rs: I see no issues with your text, Joseph >>> >>> js: I was asked to add to Sec 7.6 attrib processing >>> ... Discussed Mar 26 >>> ... Aslo what to do for default values >>> ... Email for review out Monday >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> >>> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#state_property_processing >>> >>> js: Only one response >>> >>> rs: Anyone not looked at this? Please do so now >>> ... Any objections? >>> >>> RESOLUTION: Adopt Joseph's proposal for Action-1493 >>> >>> rs: Did you change other things, too? Slider? >>> >>> js: ARIA- values are required on sliders, spin button ... >>> >>> <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#slider >>> >>> js: summarizes changes .... >>> >>> rs: Is there text in Core for this? >>> >>> js: Will be fixing >>> ... Author Errors sec has values, but needs updating >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and >>> Slider to update author error section for >>> default values [recorded in >>> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action01] >>> >>> <trackbot> Created ACTION-1670 - Modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and >>> slider to update author error section for default >>> values [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09]. >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1670? >>> >>> <trackbot> Action-1670 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify, scrollbar, >>> spinbutton and slider to update author error section >>> for default values -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1670 >>> >>> jn: What about infinitely scrollable? >>> >>> js: Listed as required state -- >>> ... This is already in ARIA-1.0 >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1493? >>> >>> <trackbot> Action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text >>> allowing šimplicit value for roleš to provide default >>> values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493 >>> >>> <jamesn> ISSUE: need to allow scrollbars to specify an unknown value >>> for aria-valuemax >>> >>> <trackbot> Created ISSUE-718 - Need to allow scrollbars to specify an >>> unknown value for aria-valuemax. Please complete >>> additional details at < >>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/718/edit>. >>> >>> mc: Do we need Joanie to do the merge? What about Joseph? >>> >>> js: Sure >>> ... Slight chance not by Monday >>> >>> <jamesn> fyi I just updated issue-718 I just logged to ARIA 2.0 >>> >>> mc: If Monday, that's OK, but need to know if issue >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> >>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1606 >>> >>> RESOLUTION: Close Action-1606 >>> >>> js: Note new Issue 718 >>> >>> jd: Don't think it needs unknown max, just that the max keeps changing >>> ... But I always think desktop >>> >>> jn: That may indeed be OK >>> ... And we simply need to document that >>> >>> action-1591? >>> >>> <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role doesn't list >>> aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 -- >>> PENDINGREVIEW >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591 >>> >>> <clown> action-1591? >>> >>> <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role doesn't list >>> aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 -- >>> PENDINGREVIEW >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591 >>> >>> <clown> >>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0177.html >>> >>> jd: Believe I have this in a branch, but no responses >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> >>> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#aria-readonly >>> >>> jd: Believe I changed some inheritance >>> >>> <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#radio >>> >>> rs: Looks fine. Any issues? >>> >>> jd: Asking to re-consider inheritance ... >>> >>> rs: Should be a separate Action >>> >>> jd: Would think it useful for the heartbeat >>> >>> rs: Won't have time to review >>> ... We need to review it separately. Can we tie to Action? >>> >>> jd: Yes, will do >>> >>> RESOLUTION: Action 1591 is complete >>> >>> Switch Role ... >>> >>> jd: I believe Alex was asking for string substitution ... >>> >>> rs: So, no resolution yet ... >>> ... Should state mixed value is invalid and will default to false >>> ... Then we flag in test tools >>> ... Current text says "not supported," but should say "invalid" >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> Change this text: >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is not supported, and user >>> agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to >>> false for this role. >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> To: >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is invalid, and user agents MUST >>> treat a mixed value as equivalent to false for >>> this role. >>> >>> Action-1592? >>> >>> <trackbot> Action-1592 -- Joanmarie Diggs to switch role shouldn't say >>> about mixed value mapping. -- due 2015-03-04 -- >>> OPEN >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1592 >>> >>> Also has associated Issue >>> >>> scribe note: Above ediscussion is on this action-1592 >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph address error handling in >>> aria-checked with a value of “mixed†for a switch role >>> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action02] >>> >>> <trackbot> Created ACTION-1671 - Address error handling in aria-checked >>> with a value of “mixed†for a switch role [on >>> Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09]. >>> >>> rs: Anything with localized role description? >>> >>> jd: Believe pending review >>> >>> Action-1417 >>> >>> RESOLUTION: Action-1417 is complete and also close Issue-636 >>> >>> issue-171? >>> >>> <trackbot> issue-171 -- Menu discuss separator and group -- closed >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/171 >>> >>> oops >>> >>> <clown> issue=717 >>> >>> issue-717? >>> >>> issue-717? >>> >>> <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and >>> aria-dropeffect? -- open >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717 >>> >>> <clown> issue-717 >>> >>> <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and >>> aria-dropeffect? -- open >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717 >>> >>> rs: Used for GWT >>> ... Should we deprecate? >>> >>> js: Also Fluid, but only in demos >>> ... Also GPII ... >>> >>> See new Issue-719 >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/719 >>> >>> <clown> FYI: >>> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaGrabbedTrue >>> >>> jd: Shouldn't we also deprecate presentation role? >>> >>> rs: Indeed! >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Michael Mark aria-grabbed, >>> aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and >>> provide reference definition of derprecated [recorded in >>> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action03] >>> >>> <trackbot> Created ACTION-1672 - Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, >>> and the presentation role as deprecated and >>> provide reference definition of derprecated [on Michael Cooper - due >>> 2015-07-09]. >>> >>> jn: Why deprecate presentation? >>> ... Are we ever dropping support for it? >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> action-1672? >>> >>> <trackbot> action-1672 -- Michael Cooper to Mark aria-grabbed, >>> aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated >>> and provide reference definition of derprecated -- due 2015-07-09 -- >>> OPEN >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1672 >>> >>> jn: Concern on retro support for none ... still advise presentation >>> >>> General concern that "presentation" is far too widely used >>> >>> mc: So, perhaps an issue to consider during 2.0? >>> >>> <clown> issue-683 >>> >>> <trackbot> issue-683 -- The aria-level attribute is not required for >>> role=heading within the spec, but should be. -- >>> open >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/683 >>> >>> ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required attribute for >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> role="heading". Also discuss values of "auto" >>> and "subsection". >>> >>> rs: Not complete consensus, but ... >>> >>> jn: Agree that's the consensus, even though I don't participate in it! >>> >>> rs: auto and subsection values, would 2.0 be soone enough? >>> >>> mc: Yes >>> >>> RESOLUTION: ARIA-LEVEL is required for role=heading >>> >>> <jnurthen> just for the minutes - I still disagree with this but accept >>> the consensus opinion >>> >>> rs: Proposing to add Issue for auto and subsection for 2.0 >>> >>> <Stefasn> I agree >>> >>> <scribe> New issue-721 >>> >>> jd: Notes that we need default value -- consensus seemed to be thatit's >>> "2" >>> >>> rs: Can we live with that? >>> >>> [no objection] >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: aria-level defaults to a value of >>> “2†for role=“heading†>>> >>> RESOLUTION: ARIA-Level defaults to value of 2 for role=heading >>> >>> action-1657? >>> >>> <trackbot> action-1657 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Make aria-level a required >>> attribute for role=“heading†-- due 2015-06-25 >>> -- OPEN >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1657 >>> >>> rs: Updating the action >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph modify the Core mapping spec. to >>> handle the error condition of when aria-level is >>> not present for role “heading†and it defaults to “2†[recorded >>> in >>> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action04] >>> >>> <trackbot> Created ACTION-1673 - Modify the core mapping spec. to >>> handle the error condition of when aria-level is not >>> present for role “heading†and it defaults to “2†[on Joseph >>> Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09]. >>> >>> aria-uinvalid issue-651 >>> >>> issue-651? >>> >>> <trackbot> issue-651 -- Allow aria-invalid to specify more types of >>> errors including custom errors -- raised >>> >>> <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651 >>> >>> rs: need to treat error differently from help >>> ... also want to categorize importance >>> ... we could mark role=error and provide importance level ... one >>> proposal >>> >>> jd: don't believe this needs to be complicated >>> ... aria-invalid is currently string >>> ... require that author needs to localize whatever they put ... >>> >>> rs: not a string >>> >>> js: tokenized >>> ... value outsied of tokens mapps to "true" >>> >>> <clown> >>> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaInvalidUnknown >>> >>> jd: I propose "pass it along," screen reader will speak it >>> >>> js: 1.0 sayse "expose as given" >>> ... jc said can't do >>> >>> rs: aren't we trying to overload this? >>> ... point is to show the actual message, whatever it is >>> ... so another relationship? another role? >>> ... could have importance levels >>> ... could be live region ... another approach >>> >>> jd: like live >>> ... but still thinking >>> >>> rs: live has polite, assertive, off. is that enough? >>> ... Thoughts? >>> >>> <Stefasn> Don't mix things >>> >>> js: cool with aria-error to point to it >>> >>> rs: should they be live regions? >>> >>> js: do they come and go? >>> >>> rs: live not necessarily >>> ... option is to put a proposl on list for further consideration >>> ... certainly errors should be announced >>> >>> jn: but not necessarily always >>> >>> <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-live >>> >>> jd: Like the live region, but concerned how connected >>> >>> rs: We're proposing an area where errors are presented, and this area >>> is live region >>> >>> <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich Write proposal to the list for >>> error message referencs to live region [recorded in >>> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action05] >>> >>> <trackbot> Created ACTION-1674 - Write proposal to the list for error >>> message referencs to live region [on Richard >>> Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-07-09]. >>> >>> Summary of Action Items >>> >>> [NEW] ACTION: Joseph address error handling in aria-checked with a >>> value of “mixed†for a switch role [recorded in >>> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action02] >>> [NEW] ACTION: Joseph modify the Core mapping spec. to handle the error >>> condition of when aria-level is not present for >>> role “heading†and it defaults to “2†[recorded in >>> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action04] >>> [NEW] ACTION: Joseph modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and Slider to update >>> author error section for default values >>> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action01] >>> [NEW] ACTION: Michael Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the >>> presentation role as deprecated and provide reference >>> definition of derprecated [recorded in >>> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action03] >>> [NEW] ACTION: Rich Write proposal to the list for error message >>> referencs to live region [recorded in >>> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action05] >>> >>> [End of minutes] >>> >>> Found Scribe: janina >>> Present: Janina Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger Joanie_Diggs >>> STefan_Schnabel MichaelC Bryan Bryan_Garaventa JamesN >>> Found Date: 02 Jul 2015 >>> Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html >>> People with action items: joseph michael modify proposal rich scrollbar >>> slider spinbutton write >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 >>> sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net >>> Email: janina@rednote.net >>> >>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>> >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>> Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf > > -- > > Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 > sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net > Email: janina@rednote.net > > Linux Foundation Fellow > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf > >
Received on Friday, 3 July 2015 23:04:45 UTC