RE: ARIA Minutes for 2 July

+1 to Katie and James.

JF



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL [mailto:ryladog@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 3, 2015 9:24 AM
> To: 'Janina Sajka'
> Cc: 'W3C WAI Protocols & Formats'
> Subject: RE: ARIA Minutes for 2 July
> 
> Janina,
> 
> Thanks. Yes I read the minutes. This concerns me even if it is relegated to 2.0 -
> for exactly the same reason that James gave - this has been heavily
> implemented and has very wide support and is one of the few well known and
> used features of ARIA. This horse is out of the gate IMHO.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> * katie *
> 
> Katie Haritos-Shea
> Senior Accessibility SME (WCAG/Section 508/ADA/AODA)
> 
> Cell: 703-371-5545 | ryladog@gmail.com | Oakton, VA | LinkedIn Profile |
> Office: 703-371-5545
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janina Sajka [mailto:janina@rednote.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 3, 2015 6:11 AM
> To: Katie Haritos-Shea
> Cc: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
> Subject: Re: ARIA Minutes for 2 July
> 
> Katie Haritos-Shea writes:
> > Excuse me for chiming up now, but why are you considering deprecating
> > role=presentation?
> >
> 
> Note that the question of deprecating role=presentation has been deferred as
> an issue for the ARIA-2.0 timeframe.
> 
> The reason for considering deprecation is that role=presentation is no longer the
> preferred approach.
> 
> The reason for deferring consideration until the ARIA-2.0 timeframe is that
> role=presentation is so very widely implemented today.
> 
> All this is reflected, however briefly,  in ARIA minutes from 2 July available at:
> 
> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#item04
> 
> Janina
> 
> > * katie *
> >
> > Katie Haritos-Shea @ GMAIL
> > On Jul 2, 2015 2:09 PM, "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Minutes from the ARIA Task Force teleconference of 2 July are
> > > provided below as text, and are available as hypertext at:
> > >
> > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html
> > >
> > >    W3C
> > >
> > >                                                            - DRAFT -
> > >
> > >                                        Protocols and Formats Working
> > > Group Teleconference
> > >
> > > 02 Jul 2015
> > >
> > >    See also: IRC log
> > >
> > > Attendees
> > >
> > >    Present
> > >           Janina, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger,
> > > Joanie_Diggs, STefan_Schnabel, MichaelC, Bryan, Bryan_Garaventa,
> > >           JamesN
> > >
> > >    Regrets
> > >    Chair
> > >           Rich
> > >
> > >    Scribe
> > >           janina
> > >
> > > Contents
> > >
> > >      * Topics
> > >          1. Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer
> > >          2. Switch Role ...
> > >          3. Action-1417
> > >          4. issue-717?
> > >          5. ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required
> > > attribute for
> > >          6. aria-uinvalid issue-651
> > >      * Summary of Action Items
> > >
> > >
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> ___
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> Date: 02 July 2015
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger>
> > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0016.html
> > >
> > >    <scribe> scribe: janina
> > >
> > > Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer
> > >
> > >    <clown>
> > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0181.html
> > >
> > >    action-1493?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text
> > > allowing šimplicit value for roleš to provide default
> > >    values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
> > >
> > >    rs: I see no issues with your text, Joseph
> > >
> > >    js: I was asked to add to Sec 7.6 attrib processing
> > >    ... Discussed Mar 26
> > >    ... Aslo what to do for default values
> > >    ... Email for review out Monday
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger>
> > > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#state_propert
> > > y_processing
> > >
> > >    js: Only one response
> > >
> > >    rs: Anyone not looked at this? Please do so now
> > >    ... Any objections?
> > >
> > >    RESOLUTION: Adopt Joseph's proposal for Action-1493
> > >
> > >    rs: Did you change other things, too? Slider?
> > >
> > >    js: ARIA- values are required on sliders, spin button ...
> > >
> > >    <clown>
> > > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#slider
> > >
> > >    js: summarizes changes ....
> > >
> > >    rs: Is there text in Core for this?
> > >
> > >    js: Will be fixing
> > >    ... Author Errors sec has values, but needs updating
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph modify, scrollbar,
> > > spinbutton and Slider to update author error section for
> > >    default values [recorded in
> > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action01]
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1670 - Modify, scrollbar, spinbutton
> > > and slider to update author error section for default
> > >    values [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1670?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> Action-1670 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify,
> > > scrollbar, spinbutton and slider to update author error section
> > >    for default values -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1670
> > >
> > >    jn: What about infinitely scrollable?
> > >
> > >    js: Listed as required state --
> > >    ... This is already in ARIA-1.0
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1493?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> Action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text
> > > allowing šimplicit value for roleš to provide default
> > >    values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
> > >
> > >    <jamesn> ISSUE: need to allow scrollbars to specify an unknown
> > > value for aria-valuemax
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> Created ISSUE-718 - Need to allow scrollbars to
> > > specify an unknown value for aria-valuemax. Please complete
> > >    additional details at <
> > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/718/edit>.
> > >
> > >    mc: Do we need Joanie to do the merge? What about Joseph?
> > >
> > >    js: Sure
> > >    ... Slight chance not by Monday
> > >
> > >    <jamesn> fyi I just updated issue-718 I just logged to ARIA 2.0
> > >
> > >    mc: If Monday, that's OK, but need to know if issue
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger>
> > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1606
> > >
> > >    RESOLUTION: Close Action-1606
> > >
> > >    js: Note new Issue 718
> > >
> > >    jd: Don't think it needs unknown max, just that the max keeps changing
> > >    ... But I always think desktop
> > >
> > >    jn: That may indeed be OK
> > >    ... And we simply need to document that
> > >
> > >    action-1591?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role
> > > doesn't list aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 --
> > >    PENDINGREVIEW
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591
> > >
> > >    <clown> action-1591?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role
> > > doesn't list aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 --
> > >    PENDINGREVIEW
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591
> > >
> > >    <clown>
> > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0177.html
> > >
> > >    jd: Believe I have this in a branch, but no responses
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger>
> > > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#aria-readonly
> > >
> > >    jd: Believe I changed some inheritance
> > >
> > >    <clown>
> > > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#radio
> > >
> > >    rs: Looks fine. Any issues?
> > >
> > >    jd: Asking to re-consider inheritance ...
> > >
> > >    rs: Should be a separate Action
> > >
> > >    jd: Would think it useful for the heartbeat
> > >
> > >    rs: Won't have time to review
> > >    ... We need to review it separately. Can we tie to Action?
> > >
> > >    jd: Yes, will do
> > >
> > >    RESOLUTION: Action 1591 is complete
> > >
> > > Switch Role ...
> > >
> > >    jd: I believe Alex was asking for string substitution ...
> > >
> > >    rs: So, no resolution yet ...
> > >    ... Should state mixed value is invalid and will default to false
> > >    ... Then we flag in test tools
> > >    ... Current text says "not supported," but should say "invalid"
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION:
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> Change this text:
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is not supported, and user
> > > agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to
> > >    false for this role.
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> To:
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is invalid, and user
> > > agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to false for
> > >    this role.
> > >
> > >    Action-1592?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> Action-1592 -- Joanmarie Diggs to switch role
> > > shouldn't say about mixed value mapping. -- due 2015-03-04 --
> > >    OPEN
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1592
> > >
> > >    Also has associated Issue
> > >
> > >    scribe note: Above ediscussion is on this action-1592
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph address error handling in
> > > aria-checked with a value of “mixed† for a switch role
> > >    [recorded in
> > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action02]
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1671 - Address error handling in
> > > aria-checked with a value of “mixed† for a switch role [on
> > >    Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
> > >
> > >    rs: Anything with localized role description?
> > >
> > >    jd: Believe pending review
> > >
> > > Action-1417
> > >
> > >    RESOLUTION: Action-1417 is complete and also close Issue-636
> > >
> > >    issue-171?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> issue-171 -- Menu discuss separator and group --
> > > closed
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/171
> > >
> > >    oops
> > >
> > >    <clown> issue=717
> > >
> > > issue-717?
> > >
> > >    issue-717?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and
> > > aria-dropeffect? -- open
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717
> > >
> > >    <clown> issue-717
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and
> > > aria-dropeffect? -- open
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717
> > >
> > >    rs: Used for GWT
> > >    ... Should we deprecate?
> > >
> > >    js: Also Fluid, but only in demos
> > >    ... Also GPII ...
> > >
> > >    See new Issue-719
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger>
> > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/719
> > >
> > >    <clown> FYI:
> > > http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaGrabbed
> > > True
> > >
> > >    jd: Shouldn't we also deprecate presentation role?
> > >
> > >    rs: Indeed!
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Michael Mark aria-grabbed,
> > > aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and
> > >    provide reference definition of derprecated [recorded in
> > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action03]
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1672 - Mark aria-grabbed,
> > > aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and
> > >    provide reference definition of derprecated [on Michael Cooper -
> > > due 2015-07-09].
> > >
> > >    jn: Why deprecate presentation?
> > >    ... Are we ever dropping support for it?
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> action-1672?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> action-1672 -- Michael Cooper to Mark aria-grabbed,
> > > aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated
> > >    and provide reference definition of derprecated -- due 2015-07-09
> > > -- OPEN
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1672
> > >
> > >    jn: Concern on retro support for none ... still advise
> > > presentation
> > >
> > >    General concern that "presentation" is far too widely used
> > >
> > >    mc: So, perhaps an issue to consider during 2.0?
> > >
> > >    <clown> issue-683
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> issue-683 -- The aria-level attribute is not required
> > > for role=heading within the spec, but should be. --
> > >    open
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/683
> > >
> > > ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required attribute for
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> role="heading". Also discuss values of "auto"
> > > and "subsection".
> > >
> > >    rs: Not complete consensus, but ...
> > >
> > >    jn: Agree that's the consensus, even though I don't participate in it!
> > >
> > >    rs: auto and subsection values, would 2.0 be soone enough?
> > >
> > >    mc: Yes
> > >
> > >    RESOLUTION: ARIA-LEVEL is required for role=heading
> > >
> > >    <jnurthen> just for the minutes - I still disagree with this but
> > > accept the consensus opinion
> > >
> > >    rs: Proposing to add Issue for auto and subsection for 2.0
> > >
> > >    <Stefasn> I agree
> > >
> > >    <scribe> New issue-721
> > >
> > >    jd: Notes that we need default value -- consensus seemed to be
> > > thatit's "2"
> > >
> > >    rs: Can we live with that?
> > >
> > >    [no objection]
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: aria-level defaults to a value
> > > of “2† for role=“headingâ€
> > >
> > >    RESOLUTION: ARIA-Level defaults to value of 2 for role=heading
> > >
> > >    action-1657?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> action-1657 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Make aria-level a
> > > required attribute for role=“heading† -- due 2015-06-25
> > >    -- OPEN
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1657
> > >
> > >    rs: Updating the action
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph modify the Core mapping
> > > spec. to handle the error condition of when aria-level is
> > >    not present for role “heading† and it defaults to “2â€
> > > [recorded in
> > >    http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action04]
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1673 - Modify the core mapping spec. to
> > > handle the error condition of when aria-level is not
> > >    present for role “heading† and it defaults to “2† [on
> > > Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
> > >
> > > aria-uinvalid issue-651
> > >
> > >    issue-651?
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> issue-651 -- Allow aria-invalid to specify more types
> > > of errors including custom errors -- raised
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651
> > >
> > >    rs: need to treat error differently from help
> > >    ... also want to categorize importance
> > >    ... we could mark role=error and provide importance level ... one
> > > proposal
> > >
> > >    jd: don't believe this needs to be complicated
> > >    ... aria-invalid is currently string
> > >    ... require that author needs to localize whatever they put ...
> > >
> > >    rs: not a string
> > >
> > >    js: tokenized
> > >    ... value outsied of tokens mapps to "true"
> > >
> > >    <clown>
> > > http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaInvalid
> > > Unknown
> > >
> > >    jd: I propose "pass it along," screen reader will speak it
> > >
> > >    js: 1.0 sayse "expose as given"
> > >    ... jc said can't do
> > >
> > >    rs: aren't we trying to overload this?
> > >    ... point is to show the actual message, whatever it is
> > >    ... so another relationship? another role?
> > >    ... could have importance levels
> > >    ... could be live region ... another approach
> > >
> > >    jd: like live
> > >    ... but still thinking
> > >
> > >    rs: live has polite, assertive, off. is that enough?
> > >    ... Thoughts?
> > >
> > >    <Stefasn> Don't mix things
> > >
> > >    js: cool with aria-error to point to it
> > >
> > >    rs: should they be live regions?
> > >
> > >    js: do they come and go?
> > >
> > >    rs: live not necessarily
> > >    ... option is to put a proposl on list for further consideration
> > >    ... certainly errors should be announced
> > >
> > >    jn: but not necessarily always
> > >
> > >    <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-live
> > >
> > >    jd: Like the live region, but concerned how connected
> > >
> > >    rs: We're proposing an area where errors are presented, and this
> > > area is live region
> > >
> > >    <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich Write proposal to the list
> > > for error message referencs to live region [recorded in
> > >    http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action05]
> > >
> > >    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1674 - Write proposal to the list for
> > > error message referencs to live region [on Richard
> > >    Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-07-09].
> > >
> > > Summary of Action Items
> > >
> > >    [NEW] ACTION: Joseph address error handling in aria-checked with
> > > a value of “mixed† for a switch role [recorded in
> > >    http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action02]
> > >    [NEW] ACTION: Joseph modify the Core mapping spec. to handle the
> > > error condition of when aria-level is not present for
> > >    role “heading† and it defaults to “2† [recorded in
> > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action04]
> > >    [NEW] ACTION: Joseph modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and Slider to
> > > update author error section for default values
> > >    [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action01]
> > >    [NEW] ACTION: Michael Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the
> > > presentation role as deprecated and provide reference
> > >    definition of derprecated [recorded in
> > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action03]
> > >    [NEW] ACTION: Rich Write proposal to the list for error message
> > > referencs to live region [recorded in
> > >    http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action05]
> > >
> > >    [End of minutes]
> > >
> > > Found Scribe: janina
> > > Present: Janina Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger Joanie_Diggs
> > > STefan_Schnabel MichaelC Bryan Bryan_Garaventa JamesN Found Date: 02
> > > Jul 2015 Guessing minutes URL:
> > > http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html
> > > People with action items: joseph michael modify proposal rich
> > > scrollbar slider spinbutton write
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
> > >                         sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
> > >                 Email:  janina@rednote.net
> > >
> > > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
> > >
> > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > > Chair,  Protocols & Formats     http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
>    sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
>   Email: janina@rednote.net
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> 
>

Received on Saturday, 4 July 2015 22:43:56 UTC