Re: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips

Actually this is the way I already have it done, at
http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/Inline%20Form%20Field%20Validation%20and%20Dynamic%20Help%20Tooltips/Dynamic%20Help%20Tooltip/demo.htm
Though the addition of aria-describedby is a good one that I will implement.

What's a bit confusing to me about the role=tooltip method is, if it isn't supported, why would it be reflected properly in the browser accessibility tree as seen in IE and FF?

Doesn't that mean it's already supported?

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Matthew King 
  To: James Craig 
  Cc: Bryan Garaventa ; Cynthia Shelly ; public-pfwg@w3.org 
  Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 5:55 PM
  Subject: Re: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips


  I agree with James that this scenario is one of the reasonable uses of live regions. In a case like this, I suggest that aria-describedby should also be used to link the edit to the live region so the user can easily repeat the information that was just spoken without having to hunt for it. 

  Matt King
  IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
  I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
  IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
  Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
  mattking@us.ibm.com 



  From:        James Craig <jcraig@apple.com> 
  To:        Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>, 
  Cc:        Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, public-pfwg@w3.org 
  Date:        04/03/2014 05:43 PM 
  Subject:        Re: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips 

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  Hi Bryan, 

  To my knowledge, platforms APIs don't have an equivalent notification for something like "described by element changed", so I would consider this implementation unexpected and suggest trying a few other approaches. 

  1. Make this a status live region. That seems more fitting to me, since tooltip values don't typically change on the fly, and descriptions aren't typically recalculated on the fly. 
  2. Change the text contents of a single tooltip, rather than dynamically referencing and dereferencing different tooltip elements. I expect this to be less reliable than the live region approach, but probably more reliable than what you've attempted in this test case. 

  James 


  On Apr 3, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote: 

  This would be on the edit field that has focus. 
    
  It appears to be working correctly, I've confirmed that the UIA Description property automatically reflects the tooltip text when the aria-describedby ID reference changes in IE10, so it should be the same in 11. 
    

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cynthia Shelly 
  To: Bryan Garaventa ; public-pfwg@w3.org 
  Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 12:03 PM 
  Subject: RE: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips 

  Which element should have the description and what should it say? 
    
  From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com] 
  Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:00 PM
  To: Bryan Garaventa; public-pfwg@w3.org
  Subject: Re: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips 
    
  Actually this looks like a screen reader bug. 
    
  I've created the following demo that uses role=tooltip 
  http://whatsock.com/test/dt_demo/Coding%20Arena/Inline%20Form%20Field%20Validation%20and%20Dynamic%20Help%20Tooltips/Dynamic%20Help%20Tooltip/demo.htm 
    
  And checking the accDescription property in FF, it appears to reflect the change fine on the edit field. 
    
  I don't have IE11 though, so if anybody can confirm that the description property is updating correctly there, I'd appreciate it. I can then file a bug with FS. 
    
  Thanks, 
  Bryan 
    
    
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bryan Garaventa 
  To: Bryan Garaventa ; public-pfwg@w3.org 
  Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 8:52 PM 
  Subject: Re: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips 
    
  Sorry, to clarify one point, aria-describedby is on the edit field, role=tooltip is on the Div with tooltip text. As the user types, the aria-describedby value changes to point to another role=tooltip Div using the ID reference for that new tooltip. 
    
    
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bryan Garaventa 
  To: public-pfwg@w3.org 
  Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 8:50 PM 
  Subject: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips 
    
  Hi, 
  I was doing a bit of experimentation to see what would happen if role=tooltip were applied to a triggering element such as an edit field, and I dynamically updated aria-describedby to point to a different tooltip with a different ID while typing. 
    
  The scenario being a dynamic help tooltip where the user receives helpful feedback while in the process of entering data to shape their response. 
  E.G http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/Inline%20Form%20Field%20Validation%20and%20Dynamic%20Help%20Tooltips/Dynamic%20Help%20Tooltip/demo.htm 
    
  Using role=tooltip + aria-describedby doesn't work for this scenario however, since the newly added aria-describedby value isn't announced when the tooltip changes to another. 
    
  So basically, is this due to an event not firing in the browser, or because the AT isn't recognizing the change? 
    
  Btw, the referenced url above doesn't use role=tooltip for this reason, but I can make a demo that does if that helps for testing. 
    
  Thanks, 
  Bryan