Re: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips

I agree with James that this scenario is one of the reasonable uses of 
live regions. In a case like this, I suggest that aria-describedby should 
also be used to link the edit to the live region so the user can easily 
repeat the information that was just spoken without having to hunt for it.

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com



From:   James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
To:     Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>, 
Cc:     Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, public-pfwg@w3.org
Date:   04/03/2014 05:43 PM
Subject:        Re: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic 
tooltips



Hi Bryan,

To my knowledge, platforms APIs don't have an equivalent notification for 
something like "described by element changed", so I would consider this 
implementation unexpected and suggest trying a few other approaches.

1. Make this a status live region. That seems more fitting to me, since 
tooltip values don't typically change on the fly, and descriptions aren't 
typically recalculated on the fly.
2. Change the text contents of a single tooltip, rather than dynamically 
referencing and dereferencing different tooltip elements. I expect this to 
be less reliable than the live region approach, but probably more reliable 
than what you've attempted in this test case.

James


On Apr 3, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:

This would be on the edit field that has focus.
 
It appears to be working correctly, I've confirmed that the UIA 
Description property automatically reflects the tooltip text when the 
aria-describedby ID reference changes in IE10, so it should be the same in 
11.
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Cynthia Shelly
To: Bryan Garaventa ; public-pfwg@w3.org
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips

Which element should have the description and what should it say?
 
From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com] 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:00 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa; public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips
 
Actually this looks like a screen reader bug.
 
I've created the following demo that uses role=tooltip
http://whatsock.com/test/dt_demo/Coding%20Arena/Inline%20Form%20Field%20Validation%20and%20Dynamic%20Help%20Tooltips/Dynamic%20Help%20Tooltip/demo.htm
 
And checking the accDescription property in FF, it appears to reflect the 
change fine on the edit field.
 
I don't have IE11 though, so if anybody can confirm that the description 
property is updating correctly there, I'd appreciate it. I can then file a 
bug with FS.
 
Thanks,
Bryan
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Garaventa
To: Bryan Garaventa ; public-pfwg@w3.org
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips
 
Sorry, to clarify one point, aria-describedby is on the edit field, 
role=tooltip is on the Div with tooltip text. As the user types, the 
aria-describedby value changes to point to another role=tooltip Div using 
the ID reference for that new tooltip.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Garaventa
To: public-pfwg@w3.org
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 8:50 PM
Subject: Regarding role=tooltip and event firing for dynamic tooltips
 
Hi,
I was doing a bit of experimentation to see what would happen if 
role=tooltip were applied to a triggering element such as an edit field, 
and I dynamically updated aria-describedby to point to a different tooltip 
with a different ID while typing.
 
The scenario being a dynamic help tooltip where the user receives helpful 
feedback while in the process of entering data to shape their response.
E.G 
http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/Inline%20Form%20Field%20Validation%20and%20Dynamic%20Help%20Tooltips/Dynamic%20Help%20Tooltip/demo.htm
 
Using role=tooltip + aria-describedby doesn't work for this scenario 
however, since the newly added aria-describedby value isn't announced when 
the tooltip changes to another.
 
So basically, is this due to an event not firing in the browser, or 
because the AT isn't recognizing the change?
 
Btw, the referenced url above doesn't use role=tooltip for this reason, 
but I can make a demo that does if that helps for testing.
 
Thanks,
Bryan