Re: Ontolex teleconference on the 12th of March, 13:00 CET.

Hi Sander,

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 1:52 PM, Sander Stolk <ssstolk@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Unfortunately, I haven't been able to attend the telcons as of late
> (having other obligations on Mondays). From the example snippets in Julia's
> email, however, I am happy to see the proposed basic structure -- of an
> entry with member components -- has survived the many discussions so far. I
> look forward to catching up with more of your progress in the next few
> days! Hopefully I will be able to contribute in a bit more active manner in
> the near future. For the time being, I would like to add a minor note to
> the following sentence in your e-mail conversation:
>
>    - "John also suggested to have two properties, a transitive and a
>    non-transitive (the transitive as a sub-property of the non-transitive),
>    following the solution of SKOS."
>
> Note that in SKOS, it is the other way around: the non-transitive is a
> sub-property of the transitive! This so that inference will add the
> transitive relation in any case, but still allowing queries to look up
> non-transitive/asserted relations instead.
>
Yes, thanks for that. My mistake.

Regards,
John

>
> Kind regards,
> Sander
>
>
> On 10 March 2018 at 21:07, Philipp Cimiano <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.
> de> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>>   ok, thanks for all your comments.
>>
>> I propose three topics for the telco on Monday then:
>>
>> 1) Finalize discussion on the sense hierarchy modelling
>>
>> 2) Going through the list of open issues
>>
>> 3) Schedule for next steps
>>
>> I am fine with postponing potential changes to the core to a later point.
>>
>> I have created a new skype group to which I have added many of you. If
>> you want to be added to the group, please let me know.
>>
>> I do not know how to "close" the list so that externals can not join. Any
>> idea?
>>
>> Gentle Reminder: We will have our regular teleconference on Monday 12th
>> of March, 13:00 CET.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Philipp.
>>
>> Am 07.03.18 um 14:26 schrieb Julia Bosque Gil:
>>
>> Hi, Philipp, all:
>>
>> Following Jorge’s email, here are my suggestions for outputs in the near
>> time and possible next steps towards them.
>>
>> Outputs:
>>
>>    -
>>
>>    The new module
>>    -
>>
>>    Guidelines to model lexicographic information with OntoLex. These
>>    could include modelling practices *with and without* the new module
>>    and could serve as reference (together with the specification) for someone
>>    who wants to convert their dictionary to LLD and does not know where to
>>    start. The contents could range from the representation of dictionary
>>    senses and their definitions to translations, synonyms, collocations,
>>    attestations, complex forms, examples, sense order and hierarchy,
>>    etymology, semantic and morphosyntactic restrictions, etc. I understand
>>    that not everyone will agree on what we propose there for these elements,
>>    but still, I believe it really could help many people working in
>>    lexicography and trying to adopt LD for their data even if they end up
>>    taking another approach with their own model.
>>
>> I think some of the next steps could be the following:
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>    Finish the discussion on the sense hierarchy issue. Even though the
>>    modelling discussed during our last telco was mainly agreed upon provided
>>    some amendments are made, I recall there was some disagreement at the end
>>    on whether to adopt a tree pattern (http://ontologydesignpatterns
>>    .org/wiki/Submissions:Tree_Pattern
>>    <http://ontologydesignpatterns.org/wiki/Submissions:Tree_Pattern>)
>>    here (@Katrien, Fahad: please jump in if I understood this wrong ;-) ). At
>>    the end of this email I provide a short summary of the proposed modelling,
>>    and we could take up the discussion from there, if you agree.
>>    2.
>>
>>    Go over the list of issues. I still have to add the attestation issue
>>    to the list, which we agreed to leave to the background until the
>>    sense-hierarchy one was solved. There are some examples of attestations in
>>    Fahad’s *telos* and in the same document there is also a diagram
>>    about the topic provided by Katrien and Jesse:
>>    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TogPjrLyJS0OK5pzww28751M
>>    X7179-NzCIsDdzae65o/edit#
>>    <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TogPjrLyJS0OK5pzww28751MX7179-NzCIsDdzae65o/edit#>
>>    3.
>>
>>    As you mentioned, start writing the draft of the module and the
>>    guidelines document
>>
>> Regarding (2), some of the issues took us back to the core, like the
>> *blau* example from Katrien and other examples such as *counterclockwise*
>> or *anticlockwise* (one dictionary sense, adv. and adj.). I definitely
>> see the problem Katrien was referring to and this also brings us back to
>> Issue 3 on the wiki page (one dictionary entry with different parts of
>> speech). Even though revisiting the core might be needed at some point and
>> those changes would affect the issues listed on the lexicography wiki page,
>> maybe changing core elements while working on the lexicography module would
>> pose the risk of working on two different lines at a time and gradually
>> moving away from the near-future goals. My suggestion would be to keep
>> track of these problems as we keep working with more lexical resources. If
>> we detect more issues in the core or people report them in the literature
>> (also with other kind of resources that are not dictionaries), they might
>> motivate a core revisiting effort in the future. If it is just one or two
>> issues that for now affect the representation of dictionaries, maybe we can
>> find a suitable way around them with the new module, without touching the
>> core. What do you/all think?
>>
>> With respect to (1), the *sub-sense hierarchy*, here is the summary of
>> the modelling discussed during our last telco:
>>
>> A DictionaryEntry contains a set of ordered components that link to
>> lexical senses. These can be viewed as “the direct children of the
>> dictionary entry”.
>>
>>
>> :telos_n_dict a  lexgr:DictionaryEntry ;
>>    rdf:_1  :lsjsense_n32381_0_comp;
>>    rdf:_2  :lsjsense_n32381_5_comp .
>>
>> If a dictionary sense has direct (ordered) sub-senses (here, two), these
>> can be represented with the subComponent property. Each component would
>> then be linked to the sense it describes.
>>
>>
>> :lsjsense_n32381_0_comp a lexgr:DictionaryEntryComponent ;
>>    lexgr:describes :lsjsense_n32381_0;
>>    lexgr:subComponent  :lsjsense_n32381_1_comp, :lsjsense_n32381_2_comp;
>>    rdf:_1 :lsjsense_n32381_1_comp;
>>    rdf:_2 :lsjsense_n32381_2_comp .
>>
>> The subComponent property would be transitive. John also suggested to
>> have two properties, a transitive and a non-transitive (the transitive as a
>> sub-property of the non-transitive), following the solution of SKOS.
>>
>> In the case of Greek *telos*, we had translations and definitions in
>> English for each sense (e.g. *telos* - “a finish”, “the fulfilment or
>> completion of anything”). As we discussed, here we would need either to
>> have a new translation property to include these strings or to instantiate
>> senses in order to use lexinfo:translation.
>>
>> Best wishes, and looking forward to comments!
>>
>> Julia
>>
>>
>> 2018-03-07 9:48 GMT+01:00 Guadalupe Aguado de Cea <
>> guadalupe.aguado@upm.es>:
>>
>>> Dera Philipp, all
>>>
>>> I fully agree with Jorge's suggestions.
>>> And certainly, with John as co-chair with you, Philipp.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Lupe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  I El 06/03/2018 a las 20:37, Jorge Gracia escribió:
>>>
>>> Dear Philipp, all,
>>>
>>> A few comments:
>>>
>>> > First, I would like to ask all of you to provide some topics that you
>>> would like to be discussed in the next telcos.
>>>
>>> Julia and myself have been talking about possible next steps and she is
>>> sending an email apart about this.
>>>
>>> > Second, I think that our next goal will be to produce a draft for the
>>> lexicographic module. It would be great
>>> > if we could have something until summer, so we should thinking about
>>> starting to draft a spec of the module
>>> > and talk about responsibilities.
>>>
>>> Talking about responsibilities, I propose Julia to be the main editor of
>>> the ontolex-lexicography module. I volunteer as well as co-editor, but this
>>> is open of course to anyone else who thinks that can contribute  to this
>>> task substantially in the next few months.
>>>
>>> > Last but not least: Paul Buitelaar has expressed his diesire to resign
>>> as a chair of the ontolex group. I would
>>> > like to propose that we appoint John McCrae as a co-chair together
>>> with me. After all, he has been devoting
>>> > a lot of time to ontolex and lead many discussions and telcos lately.
>>>
>>> Absolutely! It makes a lot of sense having John as a chair "officially"
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Jorge
>>>
>>>
>>> 2018-03-04 15:09 GMT+01:00 Philipp Cimiano <
>>> cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>:
>>>
>>>> Dear Christian, all,
>>>>
>>>>    given the spam in the ontolex skype group, I will create a new group
>>>> in the next days.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I propose we move the telco scheduled for Monday 5th
>>>> (tomororw) to the 12th in order to have a bit of time to discuss per email
>>>> what are the next steps and the outputs the group wants to produce in the
>>>> near time.
>>>>
>>>> First, I would like to ask all of you to provide some topics that you
>>>> would like to be discussed in the next telcos.
>>>>
>>>> During last telco you discussed the telos-example that Fahad provided.
>>>> I suppose there was largely consensus on the modelling proposed by Fahad?
>>>> If not, I would be happy if someone could summarize the main points of
>>>> disagreemen briefly in an email to the group.
>>>>
>>>> Second, I think that our next goal will be to produce a draft for the
>>>> lexicographic module. It would be great if we could have something until
>>>> summer, so we should thinking about starting to draft a spec of the module
>>>> and talk about responsibilities.
>>>>
>>>> Let me also mention that during our last telcos there was some concern
>>>> with the definition of lexical entry as assuming one part of speech only.
>>>> Katrien mentioned this being an issue, she mentioned the example of "blue".
>>>> Possibly Katrien could provide the details on this list.
>>>>
>>>> Last but not least: Paul Buitelaar has expressed his diesire to resign
>>>> as a chair of the ontolex group. I would like to propose that we appoint
>>>> John McCrae as a co-chair together with me. After all, he has been devoting
>>>> a lot of time to ontolex and lead many discussions and telcos lately.
>>>>
>>>> If others want to propose additional chairs, please do so. There is no
>>>> restriction on there being three chairs only. I assume that UPM will be
>>>> strongly involved in specifying the lexicographic module, so I would kindly
>>>> invite UPM to propose someone.
>>>>
>>>> The next telco will be on the 12th of March, 13:00 CET. I will send the
>>>> agenda once I have received suggestions for topics.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Philipp.
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.03.18 um 13:33 schrieb Christian Chiarcos:
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> as we get increasingly spammed on Skype, I would leave the group call
>>>> there. Can I suggest to create a new group and ask you to invite me there,
>>>> again?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>> Am .02.2018, 07:26 Uhr, schrieb Philipp Cimiano
>>>> <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Julia, all,
>>>>
>>>>  thanks for sharing the draft of the telos example for today's telco.
>>>>
>>>> I am currently attending a conference and I will not be able to attend
>>>> the telco today.
>>>>
>>>> John: could you chair the telco for me today?
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Philipp.
>>>>
>>>> Am 19.02.18 um 00:01 schrieb Julia Bosque Gil:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Here is a first draft of the* telos* example, remodeled with
>>>> DictionaryEntryComponent(s). Since attestations (vs. usage examples) are
>>>> also an issue, we could try to address both the sense hierarchy and
>>>> attestations during the same telco (if time allows):
>>>>
>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TogPjrLyJS0OK5pzww28751M
>>>> X7179-NzCIsDdzae65o/edit#bookmark=id.ibectx5jjsod
>>>>
>>>> Talk to you soon,
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Julia
>>>>
>>>> 2018-02-05 16:49 GMT+01:00 Fahad Khan <anasfkhan81@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Philipp,
>>>>> I will try to have it ready for the 19th but I will be travelling most
>>>>> of this week and most of next week so it will be difficult.  @Julia very
>>>>> helpfully offered to assist me and hopefully with her help I should manage
>>>>> (I still have to get touch with her after the call).
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Fahad
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5 February 2018 at 16:37, Philipp Cimiano <
>>>>> cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to apologize. I intended to attend the call today, but there
>>>>>> were technical problems at our institute today around mid day so that I
>>>>>> could not connect via skype.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am very sorry for this, but I am even more happy that Julia chaired
>>>>>> the telco for me ;-) Thanks Julia!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We agreed to meet in two weeks from today to discuss the reworked
>>>>>> telos-example by Fahad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @Fahad: can you confirm that you will be able to remodel the example
>>>>>> along the lines we discussed for the telco in two weeks?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other than that, I will bring up some of the issues discussed during
>>>>>> the last telcos up to this mailing list and send a summary so that more
>>>>>> people can contribute.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stay tuned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Philipp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 05.02.18 um 15:04 schrieb Julia Bosque Gil:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are the minutes of today's call: https://www.w3.org/community/o
>>>>>> ntolex/wiki/Teleconference,_2018.05.02,_13-14_pm_CET
>>>>>> You can also find a summary at the end of our Skype chat. If you
>>>>>> haven't joined yet, here is the link for future reference:
>>>>>> https://join.skype.com/ncintRpMcpEy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We discussed issues 4 (usage examples) and 5 (geographical
>>>>>> information). Issues 1 and 3, which are controversial, were not addressed
>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
>>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2018-02-05 7:23 GMT+01:00 Philipp Cimiano <
>>>>>> cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   this is a gentle reminder that we agreed to have our ontolex
>>>>>>> teleconference today (Monday 5th of February) at 13:00 CET.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The idea was to quickly go over the list of open issues (finally).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I added short minutes of the last two meetings to the ontolex wiki:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Main_Page#Meetings
>>>>>>> _of_the_Community_Group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Talk to you later at 13:00 CET over skype.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Philipp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>>>>> AG Semantic Computing
>>>>>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>>>>>>> Universität Bielefeld
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 <%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>>>>>>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 <%2B49%20521%20106%206560>
>>>>>>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Office CITEC-2.307
>>>>>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>>>>>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>>>>>>> Germany
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julia Bosque Gil
>>>>>> PhD Student
>>>>>> Ontology Engineering Group <http://www.oeg-upm.net/>
>>>>>> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>>>>>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>>>> AG Semantic Computing
>>>>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>>>>>> Universität Bielefeld
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 <+49%20521%2010612249>
>>>>>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 <+49%20521%201066560>
>>>>>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Office CITEC-2.307
>>>>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>>>>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>>>>>> Germany
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>   Julia Bosque Gil PhD Student Ontology Engineering Group
>>>> <http://www.oeg-upm.net/>
>>>> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>>>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>> AG Semantic Computing
>>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>>>> Universität Bielefeld
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 <+49%20521%2010612249>
>>>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 <+49%20521%201066560>
>>>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>>
>>>> Office CITEC-2.307
>>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>>>> Germany
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Prof. Dr. Christian Chiarcos Applied Computational Linguistics Johann
>>>> Wolfgang Goethe Universität Frankfurt a. M. 60054 Frankfurt am Main,
>>>> Germany office: Robert-Mayer-Str. 10, #401b
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Robert-Mayer-Str.+10,+%23401b&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> mail: chiarcos@informatik.uni-frankfurt.de web:
>>>> http://acoli.cs.uni-frankfurt.de tel: +49-(0)69-798-22463
>>>> <+49%2069%2079822463> fax: +49-(0)69-798-28931 <+49%2069%2079828931>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>> AG Semantic Computing
>>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>>>> Universität Bielefeld
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 <+49%20521%2010612249>
>>>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 <+49%20521%201066560>
>>>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>>
>>>> Office CITEC-2.307
>>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>>>> Germany
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Jorge Gracia, PhD
>>> Department of Computer Science and Systems Engineering
>>> University of Zaragoza
>>> http://jogracia.url.ph/web/
>>>
>>> --
>>> Guadalupe Aguado de Cea
>>> Departamento de Lingüística Aplicada
>>> Miembro del Ontology Engineering Group -OEG
>>> Facultad de Informática
>>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>>> Campus de Montegancedo, sn
>>> 28660, Boadilla del Monte, Spain
>>>
>>> Home page: www.oeg-upm.net
>>> e-mail: guadalupe.aguado@upm.es
>>> Telef.: 34-91-3367415
>>>
>>> ​
>> --
>>   Julia Bosque Gil PhD Student Ontology Engineering Group
>> <http://www.oeg-upm.net/>
>> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>> AG Semantic Computing
>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>> Universität Bielefeld
>>
>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 <+49%20521%2010612249>
>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 <+49%20521%201066560>
>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>
>> Office CITEC-2.307
>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>> Germany
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sander Stolk, MSc MA
>