Re: Ontolex teleconference on the 12th of March, 13:00 CET.

Dear all,

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to attend the telcons as of late (having
other obligations on Mondays). From the example snippets in Julia's email,
however, I am happy to see the proposed basic structure -- of an entry with
member components -- has survived the many discussions so far. I look
forward to catching up with more of your progress in the next few days!
Hopefully I will be able to contribute in a bit more active manner in the
near future. For the time being, I would like to add a minor note to the
following sentence in your e-mail conversation:

   - "John also suggested to have two properties, a transitive and a
   non-transitive (the transitive as a sub-property of the non-transitive),
   following the solution of SKOS."

Note that in SKOS, it is the other way around: the non-transitive is a
sub-property of the transitive! This so that inference will add the
transitive relation in any case, but still allowing queries to look up
non-transitive/asserted relations instead.

Kind regards,
Sander


On 10 March 2018 at 21:07, Philipp Cimiano <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>   ok, thanks for all your comments.
>
> I propose three topics for the telco on Monday then:
>
> 1) Finalize discussion on the sense hierarchy modelling
>
> 2) Going through the list of open issues
>
> 3) Schedule for next steps
>
> I am fine with postponing potential changes to the core to a later point.
>
> I have created a new skype group to which I have added many of you. If you
> want to be added to the group, please let me know.
>
> I do not know how to "close" the list so that externals can not join. Any
> idea?
>
> Gentle Reminder: We will have our regular teleconference on Monday 12th of
> March, 13:00 CET.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Philipp.
>
> Am 07.03.18 um 14:26 schrieb Julia Bosque Gil:
>
> Hi, Philipp, all:
>
> Following Jorge’s email, here are my suggestions for outputs in the near
> time and possible next steps towards them.
>
> Outputs:
>
>    -
>
>    The new module
>    -
>
>    Guidelines to model lexicographic information with OntoLex. These
>    could include modelling practices *with and without* the new module
>    and could serve as reference (together with the specification) for someone
>    who wants to convert their dictionary to LLD and does not know where to
>    start. The contents could range from the representation of dictionary
>    senses and their definitions to translations, synonyms, collocations,
>    attestations, complex forms, examples, sense order and hierarchy,
>    etymology, semantic and morphosyntactic restrictions, etc. I understand
>    that not everyone will agree on what we propose there for these elements,
>    but still, I believe it really could help many people working in
>    lexicography and trying to adopt LD for their data even if they end up
>    taking another approach with their own model.
>
> I think some of the next steps could be the following:
>
>    1.
>
>    Finish the discussion on the sense hierarchy issue. Even though the
>    modelling discussed during our last telco was mainly agreed upon provided
>    some amendments are made, I recall there was some disagreement at the end
>    on whether to adopt a tree pattern (http://ontologydesignpatterns.org/
>    wiki/Submissions:Tree_Pattern) here (@Katrien, Fahad: please jump in
>    if I understood this wrong ;-) ). At the end of this email I provide a
>    short summary of the proposed modelling, and we could take up the
>    discussion from there, if you agree.
>    2.
>
>    Go over the list of issues. I still have to add the attestation issue
>    to the list, which we agreed to leave to the background until the
>    sense-hierarchy one was solved. There are some examples of attestations in
>    Fahad’s *telos* and in the same document there is also a diagram about
>    the topic provided by Katrien and Jesse: https://docs.google.com/
>    document/d/1TogPjrLyJS0OK5pzww28751MX7179-NzCIsDdzae65o/edit#
>    <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TogPjrLyJS0OK5pzww28751MX7179-NzCIsDdzae65o/edit#>
>    3.
>
>    As you mentioned, start writing the draft of the module and the
>    guidelines document
>
> Regarding (2), some of the issues took us back to the core, like the
> *blau* example from Katrien and other examples such as *counterclockwise*
> or *anticlockwise* (one dictionary sense, adv. and adj.). I definitely
> see the problem Katrien was referring to and this also brings us back to
> Issue 3 on the wiki page (one dictionary entry with different parts of
> speech). Even though revisiting the core might be needed at some point and
> those changes would affect the issues listed on the lexicography wiki page,
> maybe changing core elements while working on the lexicography module would
> pose the risk of working on two different lines at a time and gradually
> moving away from the near-future goals. My suggestion would be to keep
> track of these problems as we keep working with more lexical resources. If
> we detect more issues in the core or people report them in the literature
> (also with other kind of resources that are not dictionaries), they might
> motivate a core revisiting effort in the future. If it is just one or two
> issues that for now affect the representation of dictionaries, maybe we can
> find a suitable way around them with the new module, without touching the
> core. What do you/all think?
>
> With respect to (1), the *sub-sense hierarchy*, here is the summary of
> the modelling discussed during our last telco:
>
> A DictionaryEntry contains a set of ordered components that link to
> lexical senses. These can be viewed as “the direct children of the
> dictionary entry”.
>
>
> :telos_n_dict a  lexgr:DictionaryEntry ;
>    rdf:_1  :lsjsense_n32381_0_comp;
>    rdf:_2  :lsjsense_n32381_5_comp .
>
> If a dictionary sense has direct (ordered) sub-senses (here, two), these
> can be represented with the subComponent property. Each component would
> then be linked to the sense it describes.
>
>
> :lsjsense_n32381_0_comp a lexgr:DictionaryEntryComponent ;
>    lexgr:describes :lsjsense_n32381_0;
>    lexgr:subComponent  :lsjsense_n32381_1_comp, :lsjsense_n32381_2_comp;
>    rdf:_1 :lsjsense_n32381_1_comp;
>    rdf:_2 :lsjsense_n32381_2_comp .
>
> The subComponent property would be transitive. John also suggested to
> have two properties, a transitive and a non-transitive (the transitive as a
> sub-property of the non-transitive), following the solution of SKOS.
>
> In the case of Greek *telos*, we had translations and definitions in
> English for each sense (e.g. *telos* - “a finish”, “the fulfilment or
> completion of anything”). As we discussed, here we would need either to
> have a new translation property to include these strings or to instantiate
> senses in order to use lexinfo:translation.
>
> Best wishes, and looking forward to comments!
>
> Julia
>
>
> 2018-03-07 9:48 GMT+01:00 Guadalupe Aguado de Cea <guadalupe.aguado@upm.es
> >:
>
>> Dera Philipp, all
>>
>> I fully agree with Jorge's suggestions.
>> And certainly, with John as co-chair with you, Philipp.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Lupe
>>
>>
>>
>>  I El 06/03/2018 a las 20:37, Jorge Gracia escribió:
>>
>> Dear Philipp, all,
>>
>> A few comments:
>>
>> > First, I would like to ask all of you to provide some topics that you
>> would like to be discussed in the next telcos.
>>
>> Julia and myself have been talking about possible next steps and she is
>> sending an email apart about this.
>>
>> > Second, I think that our next goal will be to produce a draft for the
>> lexicographic module. It would be great
>> > if we could have something until summer, so we should thinking about
>> starting to draft a spec of the module
>> > and talk about responsibilities.
>>
>> Talking about responsibilities, I propose Julia to be the main editor of
>> the ontolex-lexicography module. I volunteer as well as co-editor, but this
>> is open of course to anyone else who thinks that can contribute  to this
>> task substantially in the next few months.
>>
>> > Last but not least: Paul Buitelaar has expressed his diesire to resign
>> as a chair of the ontolex group. I would
>> > like to propose that we appoint John McCrae as a co-chair together with
>> me. After all, he has been devoting
>> > a lot of time to ontolex and lead many discussions and telcos lately.
>>
>> Absolutely! It makes a lot of sense having John as a chair "officially"
>> ;-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Jorge
>>
>>
>> 2018-03-04 15:09 GMT+01:00 Philipp Cimiano <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.
>> de>:
>>
>>> Dear Christian, all,
>>>
>>>    given the spam in the ontolex skype group, I will create a new group
>>> in the next days.
>>>
>>> By the way, I propose we move the telco scheduled for Monday 5th
>>> (tomororw) to the 12th in order to have a bit of time to discuss per email
>>> what are the next steps and the outputs the group wants to produce in the
>>> near time.
>>>
>>> First, I would like to ask all of you to provide some topics that you
>>> would like to be discussed in the next telcos.
>>>
>>> During last telco you discussed the telos-example that Fahad provided. I
>>> suppose there was largely consensus on the modelling proposed by Fahad? If
>>> not, I would be happy if someone could summarize the main points of
>>> disagreemen briefly in an email to the group.
>>>
>>> Second, I think that our next goal will be to produce a draft for the
>>> lexicographic module. It would be great if we could have something until
>>> summer, so we should thinking about starting to draft a spec of the module
>>> and talk about responsibilities.
>>>
>>> Let me also mention that during our last telcos there was some concern
>>> with the definition of lexical entry as assuming one part of speech only.
>>> Katrien mentioned this being an issue, she mentioned the example of "blue".
>>> Possibly Katrien could provide the details on this list.
>>>
>>> Last but not least: Paul Buitelaar has expressed his diesire to resign
>>> as a chair of the ontolex group. I would like to propose that we appoint
>>> John McCrae as a co-chair together with me. After all, he has been devoting
>>> a lot of time to ontolex and lead many discussions and telcos lately.
>>>
>>> If others want to propose additional chairs, please do so. There is no
>>> restriction on there being three chairs only. I assume that UPM will be
>>> strongly involved in specifying the lexicographic module, so I would kindly
>>> invite UPM to propose someone.
>>>
>>> The next telco will be on the 12th of March, 13:00 CET. I will send the
>>> agenda once I have received suggestions for topics.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Philipp.
>>>
>>> Am 03.03.18 um 13:33 schrieb Christian Chiarcos:
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> as we get increasingly spammed on Skype, I would leave the group call
>>> there. Can I suggest to create a new group and ask you to invite me there,
>>> again?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Christian
>>>
>>> Am .02.2018, 07:26 Uhr, schrieb Philipp Cimiano
>>> <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>:
>>>
>>> Dear Julia, all,
>>>
>>>  thanks for sharing the draft of the telos example for today's telco.
>>>
>>> I am currently attending a conference and I will not be able to attend
>>> the telco today.
>>>
>>> John: could you chair the telco for me today?
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Philipp.
>>>
>>> Am 19.02.18 um 00:01 schrieb Julia Bosque Gil:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Here is a first draft of the* telos* example, remodeled with
>>> DictionaryEntryComponent(s). Since attestations (vs. usage examples) are
>>> also an issue, we could try to address both the sense hierarchy and
>>> attestations during the same telco (if time allows):
>>>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TogPjrLyJS0OK5pzww28751M
>>> X7179-NzCIsDdzae65o/edit#bookmark=id.ibectx5jjsod
>>>
>>> Talk to you soon,
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Julia
>>>
>>> 2018-02-05 16:49 GMT+01:00 Fahad Khan <anasfkhan81@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Dear Philipp,
>>>> I will try to have it ready for the 19th but I will be travelling most
>>>> of this week and most of next week so it will be difficult.  @Julia very
>>>> helpfully offered to assist me and hopefully with her help I should manage
>>>> (I still have to get touch with her after the call).
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Fahad
>>>>
>>>> On 5 February 2018 at 16:37, Philipp Cimiano <
>>>> cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to apologize. I intended to attend the call today, but there
>>>>> were technical problems at our institute today around mid day so that I
>>>>> could not connect via skype.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am very sorry for this, but I am even more happy that Julia chaired
>>>>> the telco for me ;-) Thanks Julia!
>>>>>
>>>>> We agreed to meet in two weeks from today to discuss the reworked
>>>>> telos-example by Fahad.
>>>>>
>>>>> @Fahad: can you confirm that you will be able to remodel the example
>>>>> along the lines we discussed for the telco in two weeks?
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than that, I will bring up some of the issues discussed during
>>>>> the last telcos up to this mailing list and send a summary so that more
>>>>> people can contribute.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stay tuned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Philipp
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 05.02.18 um 15:04 schrieb Julia Bosque Gil:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are the minutes of today's call: https://www.w3.org/community/o
>>>>> ntolex/wiki/Teleconference,_2018.05.02,_13-14_pm_CET
>>>>> You can also find a summary at the end of our Skype chat. If you
>>>>> haven't joined yet, here is the link for future reference:
>>>>> https://join.skype.com/ncintRpMcpEy
>>>>>
>>>>> We discussed issues 4 (usage examples) and 5 (geographical
>>>>> information). Issues 1 and 3, which are controversial, were not addressed
>>>>> today.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Julia
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2018-02-05 7:23 GMT+01:00 Philipp Cimiano <
>>>>> cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   this is a gentle reminder that we agreed to have our ontolex
>>>>>> teleconference today (Monday 5th of February) at 13:00 CET.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea was to quickly go over the list of open issues (finally).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I added short minutes of the last two meetings to the ontolex wiki:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Main_Page#Meetings
>>>>>> _of_the_Community_Group
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Talk to you later at 13:00 CET over skype.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Philipp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>>>> AG Semantic Computing
>>>>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>>>>>> Universität Bielefeld
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 <%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>>>>>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 <%2B49%20521%20106%206560>
>>>>>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Office CITEC-2.307
>>>>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>>>>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>>>>>> Germany
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Julia Bosque Gil
>>>>> PhD Student
>>>>> Ontology Engineering Group <http://www.oeg-upm.net/>
>>>>> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>>>>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>>> AG Semantic Computing
>>>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>>>>> Universität Bielefeld
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 <+49%20521%2010612249>
>>>>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 <+49%20521%201066560>
>>>>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>>>
>>>>> Office CITEC-2.307
>>>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>>>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>>>>> Germany
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>   Julia Bosque Gil PhD Student Ontology Engineering Group
>>> <http://www.oeg-upm.net/>
>>> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>> AG Semantic Computing
>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>>> Universität Bielefeld
>>>
>>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 <+49%20521%2010612249>
>>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 <+49%20521%201066560>
>>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>
>>> Office CITEC-2.307
>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>>> Germany
>>>
>>> --
>>> Prof. Dr. Christian Chiarcos Applied Computational Linguistics Johann
>>> Wolfgang Goethe Universität Frankfurt a. M. 60054 Frankfurt am Main,
>>> Germany office: Robert-Mayer-Str. 10, #401b
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Robert-Mayer-Str.+10,+%23401b&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> mail: chiarcos@informatik.uni-frankfurt.de web:
>>> http://acoli.cs.uni-frankfurt.de tel: +49-(0)69-798-22463
>>> <+49%2069%2079822463> fax: +49-(0)69-798-28931 <+49%2069%2079828931>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>> AG Semantic Computing
>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>>> Universität Bielefeld
>>>
>>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 <+49%20521%2010612249>
>>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 <+49%20521%201066560>
>>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>
>>> Office CITEC-2.307
>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>>> Germany
>>>
>>> --
>> Jorge Gracia, PhD
>> Department of Computer Science and Systems Engineering
>> University of Zaragoza
>> http://jogracia.url.ph/web/
>>
>> --
>> Guadalupe Aguado de Cea
>> Departamento de Lingüística Aplicada
>> Miembro del Ontology Engineering Group -OEG
>> Facultad de Informática
>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>> Campus de Montegancedo, sn
>> 28660, Boadilla del Monte, Spain
>>
>> Home page: www.oeg-upm.net
>> e-mail: guadalupe.aguado@upm.es
>> Telef.: 34-91-3367415
>>
>> ​
> --
>   Julia Bosque Gil PhD Student Ontology Engineering Group
> <http://www.oeg-upm.net/>
> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>
> --
> --
> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
> AG Semantic Computing
> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
> Universität Bielefeld
>
> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 <+49%20521%2010612249>
> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 <+49%20521%201066560>
> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>
> Office CITEC-2.307
> Universitätsstr. 21-25
> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
> Germany
>
>


-- 
Sander Stolk, MSc MA