Re: clarification needed in a case of 'constraint of a rule' vs 'refinement of an action' ?

Respected Sir's,

I agree, that the constraint is more tied to the permission than the action.

Also I am getting to understand the explanations better especially in the
context of the lines

* "So this means the Permission is always “active”, even though you may not
be able to “distribute” since the date refinement stops you..."
* the diagram authored by Nicoletta
* "A constraint on a rule short circuits evaluation"

thank you for the patience shown
regards


On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 12:31 PM Renato Iannella <r@iannel.la> wrote:

> Hi Sridhar, there was discussion on this topic in April 2022:
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-odrl/2022Apr/
> (but not that much resolution…)
>
> There is no unambiguous difference, but the Model (sort of) implies that
> Constraints are conditions for the Rule, and Refinements narrow the
> semantics of an Action.
>
> So, in the examples you gave below, the first one says that the Permission
> (Rule) needs to be exercised before the specified date (irrespective of the
> Action).
>
> The second one you gave then does not naturally fit that model, in that
> the “dateTime” refinement “narrows” the semantics of the “distribution”.
> So this means the Permission is always “active”, even though you may not
> be able to “distribute” since the date refinement stops you...
>
> I think a good test for Refinements is to make sure that it naturally (and
> intrinsically) narrows the semantics of the Action.
>
> If you look at Example 14:
> https://www.w3.org/TR/odrl-model/#constraint-action
> and try to express the “resolution” as a Constraint, then you can see it
> does not feel right...
>
> Cheers - R
>
>
> On 13 May 2024, at 18:51, Sridhar Krishnamurthy <ksridhar@amagi.com>
> wrote:
>
> I beg to seek a clarification regarding
> How do we decide in some cases to choose between
> 'a constraint to a rule' vs 'refinement of an action' ?
>
> ------------------------
>
> Let us consider the example 13 in
> https://www.w3.org/TR/odrl-model/#constraint-rule
>
> (A)
>
> {
>     "@context": "http://www.w3.org/ns/odrl.jsonld",
>     "@type": "Offer",
>     "uid": "http://example.com/policy:6163",
>     "profile": "http://example.com/odrl:profile:10",
>     "permission": [{
>        "target": "http://example.com/document:1234",
>        "assigner": "http://example.com/org:616",
>        "action": "distribute",
>        "constraint": [{
>            "leftOperand": "dateTime",
>            "operator": "lt",
>            "rightOperand":  { "@value": "2018-01-01", "@type": "xsd:date" }
>        }]
>    }]
> }
>
> ------------------------
>
> what would be the reason that prevents us from expressing the same thing as
>
> (B)
>
> {
>     "@context": "http://www.w3.org/ns/odrl.jsonld",
>     "@type": "Offer",
>     "uid": "http://example.com/policy:6163",
>     "profile": "http://example.com/odrl:profile:10",
>     "permission": [{
>        "target": "http://example.com/document:1234",
>        "assigner": "http://example.com/org:616",
>        "action": [{
>           "rdf:value": { "@id": "odrl:distribute" },
>           "refinement": [{
>               "leftOperand": "dateTime",
>               "operator": "lt",
>               "rightOperand":  { "@value": "2018-01-01", "@type":
> "xsd:date" }
>           }]
>        }]
>    }]
> }
>
> thanks and regards
>
>
>

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