- From: Víctor Rodríguez Doncel <vrodriguez@fi.upm.es>
- Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 15:13:28 +0200
- To: public-odrl@w3.org
- Message-ID: <bda2708c-902e-5c4b-8b86-cc219b2d2048@fi.upm.es>
Dear both, Your suggestion is of much worth, I hope it is discussed soon (call to be convened) and duly added. Thanks, Víctor El 02/05/2024 a las 13:20, Sridhar Krishnamurthy escribió: > Yes sir. I read it too. By looking at the code and documentation i > found out there are presets that are used to give out result of an > evaluation and they are 'pre-configured' in > https://github.com/nitmws/odrl-wprofile-evaltest1/blob/master/testdata/testconfig.yml. > I also had a look at https://github.com/mosaicrown/policy-engine. > I am looking/thinking to see if a odrl parser/evaluator can be written > in a recursive descent manner. > > Sir, I have a request. The state diagram that you shared earlier > nicely explained the concept. Can this be added in at least the > non-normative portions of the > https://w3c.github.io/odrl/formal-semantics/ specification ? The state > diagram reminds me of > https://www.inf.ed.ac.uk/teaching/courses/seoc/2005_2006/resources/statecharts.pdf > > regards > > On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 12:22 AM Joshua Cornejo <josh@marketdata.md> wrote: > > Sridhar: > > I’ve had a chance to read the GitHub documentation and want to > highlight: > > Is a function for evaluation available? (Note: this *project does > not provide constraint evaluation functions*! - but it outlines > where to add code for this purpose.) > > Regards, > > ___________________________________ > > *Joshua Cornejo* > > *marketdata <https://www.marketdata.md/>* > > embed open standards > > across your supply chain > > *From: *Sridhar Krishnamurthy <ksridhar@amagi.com> > *Date: *Wednesday 1 May 2024 at 15:56 > *To: *Joshua Cornejo <josh@marketdata.md> > *Cc: *<public-odrl@w3.org> > *Subject: *Re: 'not-set' and 'not violated' in the context of > prohibition [formal-semantics] > *Resent-From: *<public-odrl@w3.org> > *Resent-Date: *Wed, 01 May 2024 14:56:48 +0000 > > thank you > > On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 8:24 PM Joshua Cornejo <josh@marketdata.md> > wrote: > > No idea if there are other evaluators. I think that github has > an ‘app’ for quick testing - https://odrlapi.appspot.com > > I also think these evaluations are partial (for example the > :target or :assignee are just an example.com > <http://example.com> URI). > > If you are testing just a single policy document, those > partial evaluators should be easy to implement. > > Regards, > > ___________________________________ > > *Joshua Cornejo* > > *marketdata <https://www.marketdata.md/>* > > embed open standards > > across your supply chain > > *From: *Sridhar Krishnamurthy <ksridhar@amagi.com> > *Date: *Wednesday 1 May 2024 at 15:28 > *To: *Joshua Cornejo <josh@marketdata.md> > *Cc: *<public-odrl@w3.org> > *Subject: *Re: 'not-set' and 'not violated' in the context of > prohibition [formal-semantics] > *Resent-From: *<public-odrl@w3.org> > *Resent-Date: *Wed, 01 May 2024 14:28:06 +0000 > > Respected Sir, > > I was only taking a point of view from the state machine > perspective and not from a programming perspective > > as to what is the deontic state when the activation state is > inactive. > > What you say makes sense. Will ponder on this further. > > I am also reading the specification > https://w3c.github.io/odrl/formal-semantics/ as a precursor to > > understanding the evaluator developed at > https://github.com/nitmws/odrl-wprofile-evaltest1 although > > this evaluator predates the specification. > > Sir would you happen to know if there is an 'current/ongoing' > evaluator more in tune with > > the terms used in https://w3c.github.io/odrl/formal-semantics/ > as compared to those mentioned > > at > https://github.com/nitmws/odrl-wprofile-evaltest1/tree/master/evaluator > > regards > > On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 6:58 PM Joshua Cornejo > <josh@marketdata.md> wrote: > > If you are thinking about variables in a programming > language – you probably have to decide what is the initial > state, but I would think the aState = inactive / dState = > notSet is that starting point. Once you move to an active > state the deontic state, you need to calculate the state > of the rule (and trigger a change of state from “not set” > to either of the other 2). And you don’t ‘care’ about the > dState if aState = inactive (value is semantically > irrelevant). > > But as a state machine, you only exist if your state is > ‘the current state’. You can’t check for the deontic state > if the activation state = inactive, similar if you are in > any deontic state (because that state machine is ‘local’), > that means that your activation state = active. > > (any deeper and we’re going into philosophy). > > Regards, > > ___________________________________ > > *Joshua Cornejo* > > *marketdata <https://www.marketdata.md/>* > > embed open standards > > across your supply chain > > *From: *Sridhar Krishnamurthy <ksridhar@amagi.com> > *Date: *Wednesday 1 May 2024 at 14:14 > *To: *Joshua Cornejo <josh@marketdata.md>, > <public-odrl@w3.org> > *Subject: *Re: 'not-set' and 'not violated' in the context > of prohibition [formal-semantics] > > Respected Sir, > > Does this mean that > > (a) the 'Deontic State' (green) of 'not-set' is the same > as 'not violated' ? > > (b) the 'Deontic State' (green) is 'undefined' when the > 'Activation State' is 'inactive' ? > > regards > > On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 6:28 PM Joshua Cornejo > <josh@marketdata.md> wrote: > > ·From that section 2: > > * Permission, Prohibition, Obligation (duty at the > root level), Condition (duty not at the root > level) have a property called *activation state*, > which can take the values of *active* or *inactive*. > * Prohibition, Obligation, and Condition have a > property called *deontic state*, which can take > the values of *not-set*, or *violated*, or > *fulfilled*. They can become violated or fulfilled > only when they are active. > > I have interpreted as 2 state machines that would look > as follows (matching grey and green as above): > > cid:ii_18f3445606d4cff311 > > ___________________________________ > > *Joshua Cornejo* > > *marketdata <https://www.marketdata.md/>* > > embed open standards > > across your supply chain > > *From: *Sridhar Krishnamurthy <ksridhar@amagi.com> > *Date: *Wednesday 1 May 2024 at 13:46 > *To: *<public-odrl@w3.org> > *Subject: *'not-set' and 'not violated' in the context > of prohibition [formal-semantics] > *Resent-From: *<public-odrl@w3.org> > *Resent-Date: *Wed, 01 May 2024 12:46:05 +0000 > > With respect to the deontic state of a Prohibition we > see the following: > > [Ref-A] Section > https://w3c.github.io/odrl/formal-semantics/#section2 > mentions 'not-set'. > > [Ref-B] Section > https://w3c.github.io/odrl/formal-semantics/#sematics-of-prohibition > mentions 'not violated'. > > Given this background the following questions arise: > > (a) In general (for a Obligation and a Prohibition) > > If the 'Activation State' --> 'inactive' is the > > 'Deontic State' --> 'not-set' ? > > Because as per [Ref-A] we see the statement > > "...They can become violated or fulfilled only when > they are active...." > > (b) In the context of a Prohibition > > If the 'Activation State' --> 'active' then there are > > just two possibilities for the 'Deontic State'. > These are > > 'not violated' and 'violated' as per [Ref-B]. > > Is 'not violated' the default value of the 'Deontic > State' > > because 'violated' is set only if an action is performed > > (which is Prohibited). > > (c) With respect to (a) and (b) can we conclude that > in the context of > > Prohibition 'not-set' is not the same as 'not > violated' as there are > > three distinct values of the 'Deontic State' namely > 'not-set', > > 'not violated' and 'violated'. The former when the > 'Activation State' > > is 'inactive' and the latter two when the > 'Activation State' is > > 'active'. > > Forgive me if these are naive questions. > > regards > > > *_DISCLAIMER: _*The contents of this email, including > any attachments that it may contain, are privileged > and confidential information, and may also constitute > as proprietary, and are intended solely for the use of > the addressee(s). If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender by email and > delete the original message. Unintended recipients are > strictly prohibited from copying, disclosing, and/or > distributing such contents in any manner or form. > Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this > transmission that do not relate to the official > business of Amagi, including all its affiliates, shall > be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. Any > statements made herein that are tantamount to > contractual obligations, promises, claims or > commitments shall not be binding on the Company unless > expressly and specifically stated as otherwise, or > followed by written confirmation, by an authorized > signatory of the Company. > > > *_DISCLAIMER: _*The contents of this email, including any > attachments that it may contain, are privileged and > confidential information, and may also constitute as > proprietary, and are intended solely for the use of the > addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, > please notify the sender by email and delete the original > message. Unintended recipients are strictly prohibited > from copying, disclosing, and/or distributing such > contents in any manner or form. Opinions, conclusions, and > other information in this transmission that do not relate > to the official business of Amagi, including all its > affiliates, shall be understood as neither given nor > endorsed by it. Any statements made herein that are > tantamount to contractual obligations, promises, claims or > commitments shall not be binding on the Company unless > expressly and specifically stated as otherwise, or > followed by written confirmation, by an authorized > signatory of the Company. > > > *_DISCLAIMER: _*The contents of this email, including any > attachments that it may contain, are privileged and > confidential information, and may also constitute as > proprietary, and are intended solely for the use of the > addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please > notify the sender by email and delete the original message. > Unintended recipients are strictly prohibited from copying, > disclosing, and/or distributing such contents in any manner or > form. Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this > transmission that do not relate to the official business of > Amagi, including all its affiliates, shall be understood as > neither given nor endorsed by it. Any statements made herein > that are tantamount to contractual obligations, promises, > claims or commitments shall not be binding on the Company > unless expressly and specifically stated as otherwise, or > followed by written confirmation, by an authorized signatory > of the Company. > > > *_DISCLAIMER: _*The contents of this email, including any > attachments that it may contain, are privileged and confidential > information, and may also constitute as proprietary, and are > intended solely for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not > the intended recipient, please notify the sender by email and > delete the original message. Unintended recipients are strictly > prohibited from copying, disclosing, and/or distributing such > contents in any manner or form. Opinions, conclusions, and other > information in this transmission that do not relate to the > official business of Amagi, including all its affiliates, shall be > understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. Any statements > made herein that are tantamount to contractual obligations, > promises, claims or commitments shall not be binding on the > Company unless expressly and specifically stated as otherwise, or > followed by written confirmation, by an authorized signatory of > the Company. > > > _*DISCLAIMER:*_The contents of this email, including any attachments > that it may contain, are privileged and confidential information, and > may also constitute as proprietary, and are intended solely for the > use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please > notify the sender by email and delete the original message. Unintended > recipients are strictly prohibited from copying, disclosing, and/or > distributing such contents in any manner or form. Opinions, > conclusions, and other information in this transmission that do not > relate to the official business of Amagi, including all its > affiliates, shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > Any statements made herein that are tantamount to contractual > obligations, promises, claims or commitments shall not be binding on > the Company unless expressly and specifically stated as otherwise, or > followed by written confirmation, by an authorized signatory of the > Company. -- Víctor Rodríguez-Doncel D2110 - Ontology Engineering Group (OEG) Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial ETS de Ingenieros Informáticos Universidad Politécnica de Madrid https://cosasbuenas.es
Received on Monday, 6 May 2024 13:13:35 UTC