[Minutes] MLW-LT call 2013-03-20

Hi all,

today's minutes are at
http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-mlw-lt-minutes.html
and below as text. Next call will be next Wednesday 1 p.m. UTC
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20130327T13
we will then decide about another regular call time - just one regular 
call per week, plus editing calls. Please also register your (physical 
or remote) attendance in Bled at
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/BledMay2013#Participants

Best,

Felix

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                                MLW-LT WG

20 Mar 2013

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0137.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-mlw-lt-irc

Attendees

    Present
           omstefanov, felix, philr, Karl, Ankit, Marcis, Giuseppe,
           dF, Yves, Jirka, chriLi, Milan, pnietoca, leroy,
           Clemens, mdelolmo

    Regrets
           jörg, naoto, dave, dom, arle, pedro

    Chair
           felix

    Scribe
           Marcis

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Short Rome / Luxembourg celebration
          2. [6]Standoff and script
          3. [7]XLIFF mapping
          4. [8]disambiguation + term
          5. [9]need for "saying that something is not a locale"
          6. [10]HTML default behaviour
          7. [11]aob
      * [12]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <fsasaki>
    [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Mar/0137.html

      [13] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0137.html

Short Rome / Luxembourg celebration

    Felix: successful week, thx to everyone
    ... Looking forward to the rest of project

    Philr: did reviewers give formal feedback?

    Felix: No
    ... will think by April what we do during the rest of the
    project/last workshop

    Felix ... it is difficult to hear you

    dF: call time - wants to stick to UTC because of Summer Time

    <dF> I do not want to stick to UTC, in fact I say its an issue,
    because the same UTC time means something else for US after
    last Sunday and will mean something else after Europe changes
    to summer time within a couple of weeks..

Standoff and script

    <fsasaki>
    [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Mar/0136.html

      [14] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0136.html

    Felix: wants to close the issue

    philr: Work would be needed to change test samples (if changes
    would be made)

    Felix: Agrees to philr

    Pablo: Agrees
    ... Cons: have to change implementation

    Felix: wants not to change anything

XLIFF mapping

    Felix: General thought: this and other documents like ITS
    onthologies do not ask for changes in the spec,
    ... wants to concentrate on finishing the spec.

    <fsasaki> [15]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/its-xliff

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2013/03/its-xliff

    Felix: summary: it is about a separate namespace for ITS in
    XLIFF

    <Yves_> XLIFF mapping may affect spec: e.g. do we need a local
    its:domain and its:resourceRef? (we have to use extensions in
    XLIFF for those)

    <fsasaki>
    [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Mar/0142.html

      [16] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0142.html

    Felix: summary: some stability for mapping is needed

    <Yves_> can't speak sorry

    Felix: sees that Yves has some comments

    philr: does not know the tech. to comments

    <Yves_> there is no local markup for domain but it look like we
    need one in XLIFF. Like David says

    dF: it might be useful (to have a separate namespace)
    ... maybe local mark-up is needed

    <Yves_> this is not link to namespace

    Felix: is there need for local mark-up in XLIFF?

    We do annotate locally in XLIFF ...

    (terms)

    <Yves_> XLIFF simply shows that some vocabularies don't have a
    local way to define a domain

    dF: Dave is not here, he worked on RDF mapping. Mapping on
    XLIFF may be more general

    Felix: XLIFF may benefit from local markup

    <Yves_> I can post an email on this

    philr: needs a concrete example

    <Yves_> no neeed for action item

    <Yves_> sure

    <philr> Thanks, Yves

    <Yves_> so far domain and resref

    Felix: open issues in ITS spec
    ... not convinced that spec would be broken if changes would be
    added (with respect to XLIFF)
    ... Hopes that we can have an agreement on this
    ... Hopes that we can focus on closing issues
    ... Wants to follow critical mass discussions

    philr: concern: XLIFF is unstable (in respect to ITS)
    ... wants stability

    dF: it is minor
    ... there are no roadblocks
    ... there is extensibility (in the new XLIFF spec)
    ... have basic stability
    ... thinks (and discussed with Dave and Felix in Rome) that we
    can return to this later

    philr: asks about a sample XLIFF with ITS markup

    dF: there is a superXLIFF file
    ... Yves generated also test files
    ... There is a collection on the Test Suite
    ... on GitHub
    ... there are usable examples
    ... feel free to contact Dave, Yves and dF on XLIFF questions

    Felix: thanks dF

    dF: on previous topic: we need to move the spec out of last
    call, it is more critical

    philr: ok, if there are examples on GitHub
    ... are there separate calls on XLIFF?

    dF: not now

disambiguation + term

    <fsasaki>
    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Mar/0129.html

      [17] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0129.html

    Felix: Disambiguation & term

    <fsasaki>
    [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Feb/0221.html

      [18] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html

    Felix: Christian asks if everyone is ok with the outcome

    <fsasaki>
    [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Feb/0260.html

      [19] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0260.html

    Felix: there are examples ^^^
    ... Change of one paragraph, see "How about re-formulating like
    this: "

    Felix: Christian do you have something to add?

    Christian: no

    Felix: proposes to close the issue with an action item for
    Christian to edit the spec

    Christian: agrees

    <fsasaki> ACTION: christian to make the edit for issue-68
    [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-461 - Make the edit for issue-68 [on
    Christian Lieske - due 2013-03-27].

need for "saying that something is not a locale"

    Felix: From Yves
    ... On Locale Filter

    <fsasaki>
    [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2013Mar/0001.html

      [21] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Mar/0001.html

    Felix: It is not possible currently to say to exclude a locale

    <fsasaki>
    [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2013Mar/0002.html

      [22] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Mar/0002.html

    Felix: But it is an important use case

    <fsasaki>
    [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2013Mar/0003.html

      [23] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Mar/0003.html

    Felix: Different from what we had before
    ... Difference is not only 2 attributes, but a possibility to
    exclude locales A B C and include X Y Z

    <fsasaki>
    [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2013Mar/0004.html

      [24] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Mar/0004.html

    Felix: It may have drawbacks to have such flexibility, see
    ambiguity below:

    <fsasaki> <p its-locale-filter-list="en"
    its-locale-exclude-list="*-CA">An English message not shown to
    Canadians</p>

    Felix: there may be contradictions
    ... Include and exclude lists may overlap
    ... Would people be happy reinstalling the type attribute?

    <Yves_> I would be ok for the type attribute.

    dF: question: the subject says that the e-mail should be marked
    with an issue number

    <fsasaki>
    [25]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/i
    ssues/121

      [25] 
https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/121

    dF: it is not associated with last call comments?

    Felix: it is - 1231
    ... 121

    <fsasaki> s/1213/121/

    <Yves_> sure

    Felix: Yves - would you mind reinstalling the type attribute?

    <fsasaki> ACTION: yves to re-install type attribute for locale
    filter see issue-121 [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-462 - Re-install type attribute for
    locale filter see issue-121 [on Yves Savourel - due
    2013-03-27].

HTML default behaviour

    Felix: one of the topics, which suffered from the activities in
    the last weeks.
    ... haven't had a discussion on this one
    ... summary: should this be a default for implementations that
    do not use global rules

    <fsasaki>
    [27]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085

      [27] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085

    Felix: how should it be aligned to the HTML5 spec
    ... Changes are made to the HTML5 spec

    <fsasaki>
    [28]http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7744&to=7745

      [28] http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7744&to=7745

    <fsasaki> <p>The following attributes are <dfn>translatable
    attributes</dfn>:</p>

    <fsasaki> + <p>When an element is in the
    <dfn>translate-enabled</dfn> state, the element's
    <span>translatable + attributes</span> and the values of its
    <code>Text</code> node children are to be translated when + the
    page is localized.</p>

    Felix: the change (^^^); you see that there is a list of
    attributes. One difficult aspect for ITS is that there is an
    interdependency between elements and attributes
    ... how to reflect the interdependency from HTML5 to ITS?
    ... any comments?
    ... no comments
    ... thinks this topic is around for a long time. We need to
    resolve this somehow.
    ... this is a showstopper for leaving last call
    ... encourages people to think about this

    Karl: behaviour is different between implementations (??)

    Felix: everyone who is using browser engines will have this
    issue
    ... sounds like for Karl it would be useful to rely on HTML5
    spec

    Karl: not sure about this

    Felix: could try to convince the ones who changed the spec to
    remove the interdependency between attributes and elements

    Karl: Chrome does not yet support
    [29]http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7744&to=7745
    ... Not sure whether this will be implemented
    ... sees why the HTML5 editors added this

      [29] http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7744&to=7745

    Felix: any thoughts on how to resolve the difference in the
    approaches

    Karl: not sure
    ... Those who use XML and HTML will have an issue

    Jirka: what is the problem?

    Felix: different semantics of its:translate

    Jirka: some attributes are translatable on certain elements?

    Felix: no
    ... if certain elements are translatable, some attributes are
    translatable as well
    ... and vice versa

    Jirka: yes, but it is possible to create ITS rules that behave
    similarly

    Karl: the question is on the list of defaults that we now have
    to create

    Felix: yes
    ... asks Karl to bring up the e-mail exchange again

    Karl: after the call will do that

    Felix: thx

aob

    Felix: next week 1PM UTC

    Karl: only Wednesday

    Felix: yes
    ... need also additional calls for editing

    <fsasaki>
    [30]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Ble
    dMay2013

      [30] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/BledMay2013

    Felix: Tadej created a page for Bled F2F

    <fsasaki>
    [31]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Ble
    dMay2013#Participants

      [31] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/BledMay2013#Participants

    Felix: asks everyone to register as remote even if they do not
    plan to come

    Karl: but there is no agenda?

    Felix: not yet
    ... Test Suite coverage may fluctuate because of changes in the
    spec
    ... anything else for today?
    ... thx for today

    bye

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: christian to make the edit for issue-68 [recorded
    in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: yves to re-install type attribute for locale
    filter see issue-121 [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


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     $Date: 2013-03-20 14:49:41 $

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Received on Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:59:12 UTC