[Minutes] MLW-LT call 2013-04-10

Hi all,

yesterday's call minutes are at
http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html
and below as text.  Short summary:

- ruby section has been removed - the issues is not closed yet but we 
will ask for feedback in the LC draft
- Pablo will work on ABNF for allowed characters based on xml schema abnf
- People at the call agreed with having defaults for HTML processing. 
This will influence probably "Translate" and "Elements within Text", and 
the related conformance testing. Yves will come up with a list of 
defaults based on
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/HTML5_Defaults
Goal is to define "our own defaults for HTML5 based on what we thinkis 
right and discussion in the HTML community"
- Starting from next week aim is to discuss XLIFF mapping, to achieve 
some stability by the Bled f2f.

Best,

Felix



Attendees

Present
     felix, dF, Jirka, Giuseppe, phil, pnietoca, arle, mauricio, philr, 
Yves, mdelolmo, Ankit, Milan, Pedro
Regrets
     christian, Jörg, Dave, olaf-michael, Dom
Chair
     Felix
Scribe
     fsasaki

Contents

     Topics
         Review of issues 100-120
         Review of issues 70 - 92
         LC issues in general
         Change of regex for allowed characters
         Ruby section
         HTML translate
         HTML defaults
         Publication of WD
         WG topics until Bled f2f
         aob
     Summary of Action Items

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0053.html
Review of issues 100-120

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0050.html

jirka: can close the issues that are marked to be closed

david: chase came back yesterday, I closed precedence issue
Review of issues 70 - 92

dave has regrets, postponed
LC issues in general

http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0043.html

felix: any other open issues than the four issues in the mail?
... if you find something, please let the wg list know
... in public draft, I will mention these four issues to get feedback
... e.g. HTML defaults
Change of regex for allowed characters

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0053.html

4) Change of regex for allowed characters

felix summarizing the topic from the agenda

<Yves_> I think the latest ABNF Felix posted was fine.

felix: for removing the xml schema dependencey we need to close this issue
... would people be happy to have an ABNF and then use that for validation

pablo: I could make the abnf but I'm not familiar with that

<pnietoca> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#nt-MultiCharEsc

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0041.html

<scribe> ACTION: pnietoca to create an ABNF based on 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0047.html 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-484 - Create an ABNF based on 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0047.html 
[on Pablo Nieto Caride - due 2013-04-17].
Ruby section

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2013AprJun/0014.html

norberts reply 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2013AprJun/0015.html

felix: are people ok with removing the ruby section and explain like in 
norbert's mail?

david: what would be the explanation? where would it point to?

<Yves_> I'm fine with removing the section with explanation

felix: pointing to ITS1 and the in flux HTML5 ruby

<scribe> ACTION: felix to remove ruby section and to write an 
explanation as a non-normative appendix, pointing to ITS1 and the in 
flux HTML5 ruby [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-485 - Remove ruby section and to write an 
explanation as a non-normative appendix, pointing to ITS1 and the in 
flux HTML5 ruby [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-04-17].

felix: will also mention that in status section
HTML translate

yves' bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21495

david: it is acceptable to drop interpretation of HTML translate, it is 
intertwined with html defaults in general
... we can't make a sensible default handling of html defaults without 
knowing how the bug will be handled
... what phase is html in?
... we cannot reference in the final draft something that is two steps 
behind?
... probably not acceptable to have both its translate and html 
translate html
... this cannot be resolved until html has final solution

http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html

felix: dcu, enlaso, linguaserve, lucy, ul - would need to change impl if 
we have normative dependency on HTML translate

<Yves_> We implemented HTML defaults as global rules, but it cannot 
really work for overriding.

<Yves_> Having explicit defaults would be better.

pedro: think there is not a full overlap between translate html5 and ITS 
translate
... in HTML5 there is language information and we have it in ITS, but 
the behaviour is different
... in HTML5 transalte can be coded in a global rule? ITS translate is 
more powerful
... co-existency is possibly

felix: with explicti defaults, we woudl have to wait for html5, as david 
said

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0203.html

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#the-translate-attribute

The following ARIA [ARIA] attributes are translatable attributes: 
aria-label on all HTML elements elements aria-valuetext on any element 
with an ARIA role of progressbar, scrollbar, slider or spinbutton.

felix: even with explict defaults, html5 for a long time will still be a 
moving target

<Yves_> Then we define our own defaults for HTML5 based on what we think 
is right and their discussion.

<Yves_> yes

felix: agree with yves, let's focus on our mechanism for defaults, see 
next topic
HTML defaults

https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/118

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#datacategories-defaults-etc

"translate="yes" for elements, and translate="no" for attributes" > "For 
HTML5, use these defaults: ..."

felix: expressive power would be lower than inline markup, global rules, 
inheritance

david: that is alll other methods are stronger?

felix: yes

<Yves_> I can try to come up with the list of defaults by data category

<Yves_> as a starting point

<Yves_> good then

list initially created by karl at 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/HTML5_Defaults

http://tinyurl.com/its20-testsuite-dashboard

felix: will implementers be willing for HTML defaults?

david: cannot estimate the effort

<Yves_> redoing the test should just be re-running them. The hard part 
is to implement the defaults

pablo: we should do it if we have defaults

felix: some implementations have a lot of parts for the conformance testing

<Yves_> It should affect only Translate, Element Within Text and maybe 
one or two data categories, not all 20 of them.

felix: ankit, felix, would you be able to implement the defaults in WP4?

<scribe> ACTION: felix to go back to thomas and check defaults 
implemtation effort [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-486 - Go back to thomas and check defaults 
implemtation effort [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-04-17].

daivd: about real implementations compared to conformance testing - our 
input depencdy on enlaso and tcd

felix: pablo and yves could do conformance testing for html translate

<Yves_> yes

<scribe> ACTION: yves to stabilize the defaults page from karl [recorded 
in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-487 - Stabilize the defaults page from karl 
[on Yves Savourel - due 2013-04-17].
Publication of WD

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html

felix: everybody fine with publciation as a "heart beat" draft?
... we are asking for feedback on open issues, that is the purpose of 
the publication

pablo: ok

<scribe> ACTION: felix to prepare next ITS2 public draft [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-488 - Prepare next ITS2 public draft [on Felix 
Sasaki - due 2013-04-17].
WG topics until Bled f2f

felix: propose to focus from next week until bled on xliff mapping

david: we hope to push xliff 2.0 in 2nd half of april
... in xliff 2.0 we removed all blocks that prevented the mapping into 
XLIFF 2.0
... so mappnig will cover XLIFF 1.2 and 2.0
... for Rome we concentrated on 1.2
... the methods choosen for 1.2 where choosen so that they could be adopted

pedro: if there are changes to html5 tranlate after june we won't have 
resources
... we need to close implementations, need to have stability

felix: goal is to close all unstable issues within april
... also dfaults need to be finalized in April
aob

discussion on EU deliverable timing

<dF> sorry, guys, I need to run..

<dF> I saw the googledoc, fine with UL

<dF> bye

<dF> :-)

<Arle> Felix, let's discuss tomorrow when I'm in.

<scribe> ACTION: felix to talk to Cocomore about HTML defaults [recorded 
in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-489 - Talk to Cocomore about HTML defaults [on 
Felix Sasaki - due 2013-04-17].
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: felix to go back to thomas and check defaults implemtation 
effort [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to prepare next ITS2 public draft [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to remove ruby section and to write an explanation 
as a non-normative appendix, pointing to ITS1 and the in flux HTML5 ruby 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to talk to Cocomore about HTML defaults [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: pnietoca to create an ABNF based on 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0047.html 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: yves to stabilize the defaults page from karl [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]

[End of minutes]
Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.137 (CVS log)
$Date: 2013-04-11 06:46:57 $

Received on Thursday, 11 April 2013 06:57:18 UTC