- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 18:39:57 +0200
- To: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAL58czomoWhnJ_062M4POWc0CF59rwpJY+5eFEsHydW4c6wUUA@mail.gmail.com>
... are at http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html and below as
text.
- Felix
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
MLW-LT WG
13 Sep 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Sep/0055.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-irc
Attendees
Present
Felix, Dave, David, Giuseppe, Phil, leroy, shaun, ankit,
yves, des, pedro, milan
Regrets
jirka
Chair
Felix
Scribe
tbd, daveL
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]html5 conformance
2. [6]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
/track/issues/49
3. [7]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
/track/issues/48
4. [8]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
/track/issues/45
5. [9]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
/track/issues/46
6. [10]preparation for prague
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingua
lweb-lt/2012Sep/0045.html
* [11]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<fsasaki>
[12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Sep/0055.html
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Sep/0055.html
agenda agreed
html5 conformance
<fsasaki>
[13]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/i
ssues/47
[13] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/47
<fsasaki>
[14]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
ts20/its20.html#conformance
[14] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance
fsasaki: spec currently discussed conformance for XML but not
HTML
phil: tried some html5 parsing in a browser client way, but not
through the whole value chain
... would be using xliff in other places
<dF> daveL, please mute yourself while not speaking..
<fsasaki> 4.2 Conformance Type 2: The Processing Expectations
for ITS Markup - separate mention of HTML5, separate tests
fsasaki: asking does it make sense separate conformance
sections for HTML5 and separate conformance tests - which are
available already
... does everyone agree
phil: clarifies that for html5 only planning to support quality
data categories
fsasaki: this is OK to only support one data category
phil: for quality it would probably just be local mark-up as
well
<dF> Felix, we lost you?
fsasaki: this is fine also
shaunm: also planning to support HTML to the same level of XML
currently, but not in the timeframe to support the spec
progression
fsasaki: this is fine, since it may make sense to have lower
bar for conformance testing than for support in products
... so we push as much as possible for HTML, but its not then
so critical to push on that for conofrmance
<fsasaki_> dave: agree with felix
<fsasaki_> .. HTML parsing is easy to do
<fsasaki_> .. makes it feasible to show HTML on business
products, that's a learning curve
<fsasaki_> .. looking into the tests with leroy
<fsasaki_> .. once you have done a few tests, work with the
data categories gets easier
<fsasaki_> .. the business requirements are natural a different
area
<fsasaki_> .. but the pain barrier for parsing HTML gets easier
<fsasaki_> .. its the same pattern for many data categories
<dF> sounds good
fsaski: any further question on issue of separating HTML
implementaiton in useful products and the process of
conformance testing
Yves_: agrees
Pedro: agrees
<scribe> ACTION: fsaski to write up and close ISSUE-47
[recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - fsaski
<scribe> ACTION: fsasaki to write up and close ISSUE-47
[recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[17]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/
49
[17] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/49
fsasaki: some mappings for quality data category currently in
annex that Arle had developed from detailed knowledge of
current tools
... but the tool may change over time.
<fsasaki_>
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/
[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/
fsasaki: so should we move this to a separate area, i.e. the
ITS IG
... this way discussion on these topics can continue after the
completion of the MLW-LT WG
Yves_: agrees
fsasaki: this mailing list is completely public
... put should this be a wiki or a html page?
Yves_: probably easier to use the wiki
<scribe> ACTION: felix to move this material to the ITS IG wiki
and remove the issue [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-216 - Move this material to the ITS
IG wiki and remove the issue [on Felix Sasaki - due
2012-09-20].
[20]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/
48
[20] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/48
yves: while inmplementing storage size, all line break in XML
may be different in depending on platform, which may change the
line count
... so asks for ideas on how to address this?
dF: this is needed
... if the informaiton in the bom
yves: proposes a way of recodnign this in the data category
... need to include the value to be counted, including a
default
felix; should it be a list of codepoints
yves; crap
scribe: we can't do that
... will come up a proposal on the mailing list
dF: propose considering CRLF as shown in editors
... and agree default is important
yves: guess line feed would be the default
... will come up with a short proposal on the list
<scribe> ACTION: yves to propose solution for recording
soragesize count behaviour for line breaks [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-217 - Propose solution for recording
soragesize count behaviour for line breaks [on Yves Savourel -
due 2012-09-20].
[22]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/
45
[22] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/45
felix: a lot of discussion in week on what was needed for HTML5
... which for a node is a document would say what ITS meta-data
would be present
phil: to understand more clearly would it be a read only API?
felix; this is what he had in mind
scribe: but also assume a write API
shaun: would this be a requirement for ITS conformance
felix: no, wasn't intention to specify the API in the standard,
just to provide it as a useful peice of support software
... this might help for people to make use of ITS
<fsasaki_> dave: it is a nice thing in the portfolio
<fsasaki_> .. esp. for editing you can have an API only for
local it seems
<fsasaki_> .. it just makes an easy entry point
<fsasaki_> .. mobile might be useful for this too
phil: Ok so its clearer that its javascript, this is similar to
what we've been prototyping
... but hadn't planned a releasable api
... have found a way to save output as a serialised XML file
Des: this sound more like a client side library, suitable for
best practice in a java script library
phil: yes, felt this would be useful in scenario where access
to other tools was limited but could enable access to some data
categories
... can certainly see some common function we might want to
use, but a way from that yet
Des: there may be issues with browser dependency
felix: it useful if we have initail exploration just to show
that we are considering that issue
[23]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/
46
[23] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/46
felix: so fleix to close this issue, and perhaps raise again at
TPAC
... had editorial comments from dave and aaron
... but looking for volunteer to implement some of these
<fsasaki_> dave: happy to work on the word smithing part
<fsasaki_> .. would be good to separate this between a few
people
<fsasaki_> .. don't want to go too far, and do that in small
bits
<fsasaki_> .. examples thing is a good idea, but takes a lot of
time
<fsasaki_> .. one question: in terms of the process
<fsasaki_> .. in terms of priorities: can we still do that
after November
felix: what document is on last call, as is out december
deadline, this mean every word is finished
... strictly to the normative parts,
... but if its to the non normative parts to a large extent
this is a problem also
... so changes are possible, but last call really mean freezing
the text.
... so we need to do this before the end of November
Shaun: happy to take on some of that work
felix; there are comments form dave and aaron
<fsasaki_> dave: any help is good, but shaun is in a good
position to look into HTML and XML
<fsasaki_> .. so trying with some of the examples might help
<fsasaki_> .. there is good examples here already, but they are
worth a review
<fsasaki_> .. and the HTML is worth some effort
<scribe> ACTION: shaun to provide some HMTL and revised XML
example for introductor section, referencing comments from Dave
and Aaron, but based on real use expereince [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-218 - Provide some HMTL and revised
XML example for introductor section, referencing comments from
Dave and Aaron, but based on real use expereince [on Shaun
McCance - due 2012-09-20].
preparation for prague
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/201
2Sep/0045.html
[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Sep/0045.html
felix: some data categories stioll not very stable - proveance,
mt confidence, text analysis
... we know people are working on showcases but we need good
specification also
... so we need some face to face time in the meeting to wrap
these up
<fsasaki_> dave: I'll take care of disambiguation, phil of
provenance
<fsasaki_> ,, declan will look at the spec and implementation
too
felix: the other one is text analytics annotation
... asks DavidF about view on how certain part apply to
document or segement, and also how to encode MT engine
identification
dF: though this was fairly stable, but we didn't want to
prescribe how to represent this
... the requirement is that it unique on the platform but may
then be dependent of the options the platform operator wanted
to adopt
... though the t extension seems a good fit
felix: was not clear how how prescriptive the text was meant to
be on use of t values
... since if MAY is used in a formal manner, that means that it
is optional but still needs a conformance test for that option
... seems to make sense, lets see whet delcan thinks as he
revises this.
... Dave and David will be at LRC next week
... jirka will arrange a special fun event in Prague, evening
of the first day - evening 25th
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: felix to move this material to the ITS IG wiki
and remove the issue [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: fsasaki to write up and close ISSUE-47 [recorded
in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: fsaski to write up and close ISSUE-47 [recorded
in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: shaun to provide some HMTL and revised XML
example for introductor section, referencing comments from Dave
and Aaron, but based on real use expereince [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: yves to propose solution for recording soragesize
count behaviour for line breaks [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 13 September 2012 16:40:34 UTC