- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:29:33 +0200
- To: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAL58czoezGKpSU_T5xRPFeAvi3cwAYHPXnV6O+qD4+DiADv=LA@mail.gmail.com>
... are at http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html and below as
text.
Felix
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
MLW-LT working group
05 Jul 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0048.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-irc
Attendees
Present
dF, Yves, felix, dom, dave, philr, Pedro, Jirka
Regrets
olaf, arle, michael, Shaun
Chair
felix
Scribe
Yves_, fsasaki
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]previous minutes
2. [6]actions and events
3. [7]General reminder: our plan until September
4. [8]The Leipzig Semantic Web day
5. [9]REMINDER - "call for consensus mails"
6. [10]ISSUES
7. [11]working mode
8. [12]Call for consensus about externalPlaceholder
9. [13]Call for consensus about idValue
10. [14]Charter clarification
11. [15]specialRequirements
12. [16]Test suite design
13. [17]Auto language processing rule
14. [18]readiness
15. [19]domain discussion
16. [20]aob
* [21]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<fsasaki> agenda at
[22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jul/0048.html
[22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0048.html
previous minutes
<fsasaki> [23]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html
[23] http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html
<fsasaki> no comments
actions and events
<fsasaki> ACTION-115 and ACTION-127 - Des is not here, so
postponed
<fsasaki> ACTION: Yves to work on targetPointer [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-153 - Work on targetPointer [on Yves
Savourel - due 2012-07-12].
General reminder: our plan until September
<fsasaki>
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jun/0133.html
[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0133.html
pub for 26 of July
scribe: does not depend on the call fo consensus
ok with all
The Leipzig Semantic Web day
<fsasaki>
[26]http://aksw.org/Events/2012/LeipzigerSemanticWebDay
[26] http://aksw.org/Events/2012/LeipzigerSemanticWebDay
event overlapping face-to-face meeting
in Prague
should we move F2F 27-28 of sept?
Jirka: not possible (holidays)
Felix: so stay with 25-26 sept.
REMINDER - "call for consensus mails"
<fsasaki>
[27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jul/0045.html
[27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0045.html
some confusion on how it works
an example email 0045 above
most easy to have the definition in the call
editors can just copy that later
Jirak or Felix can put it in the draft in ODD
ISSUES
some we can close
cache, ruby, etc.
can we close the issues? Ruby we have an action item
all agree
<fsasaki> can we close "cache" too?
all agree
issues still open with targetPointer, etc.
<fsasaki> ISSUE-16 Parameter for rules , ISSUE-25 Existing
metadata fields in Dublin core, ISSUE-26 Post editing related
datacats
daveL: can take post-editing
<fsasaki> ACTION: David to look into ISSUE-26 post editing data
categories [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) -
David
<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family
name or username (eg. dlewis6, dfilip)
<fsasaki> ACTION: dlewis6 to look into ISSUE-26 post editing
data categories [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - Look into ISSUE-26 post editing
data categories [on David Lewis - due 2012-07-12].
<scribe> ACTION: Yves to work on parameters [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-155 - Work on parameters [on Yves
Savourel - due 2012-07-12].
working mode
<fsasaki>
[31]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Mai
n_Page#Draft_documents_and_time_line
[31] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Main_Page#Draft_documents_and_time_line
any question on the process?
<dF> Zakim would not know as the voice is on GoTo :-)
daveL: is it worth to have people posting whenthey are
available over the summer?
<scribe> ACTION: fsasaki to create page for july availability
[recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-156 - Create page for july
availability [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-07-12].
daveL will be out next week
dF: maybe a doodle page?
<scribe> ACTION: 5 to for july and august [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 5
<fsasaki> action-156: also for august
<trackbot> ACTION-156 Create page for july availability notes
added
Call for consensus about externalPlaceholder
<fsasaki>
[34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jul/0000.html
[34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0000.html
made by Shaun
yves replied
any objection or need time?
<dF> good here
<scribe> ACTION: fsasaki to put Shuan text in ODD file
[recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-157 - Put Shuan text in ODD file [on
Felix Sasaki - due 2012-07-12].
Call for consensus about idValue
<fsasaki>
[36]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jul/0045.html
[36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0045.html
Yves posted that call
realted issue: id granularity
<dF> good here
daveL: yes, nothing to add. all fine
<scribe> ACTION: jirka to add the idValue to ODD [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-158 - Add the idValue to ODD [on
Jirka Kosek - due 2012-07-12].
<fsasaki>
[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jul/att-0045/idValueDescription.pdf
[38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/att-0045/idValueDescription.pdf
Charter clarification
<fsasaki>
[39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jul/0012.html
[39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0012.html
dificult to drop RDFa
don't have Tadej, maxim here
thanks to Jirka for the place holder. we need Tadej, maxim to
fill in.
daveL: in Dublin we talked about it,
felix: outcome with w3C was that we can't drop this
it's part of the charter now
but we can do it only where it make sense
daveL: so we need implementations too
felix: need an algorithm to create the markup
... could adapt what i have, other too. no need for consumers
specialRequirements
felix: long thread about this
<fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
yves: guiseppe came up with a proposal
... two aspects: length text restriction
... storage in a data base etc.
... and to restrict the type of character that can be used for
content
... there was discussion whether that should be different data
categories
... latest proposition from Guiseppe seems to be quite workable
... e.g. unit for storage
... but it seems implementable
... there was information about how to specifiy what character
would be forbidden
... e.g. using a subset of a regular expression
felix: how does this relate to the XLIFF TC work?
david: frederick said he will submit the draft for discussion
before he leaves for vacation
felix: can we also see the draft?
david: I can post it to our mailing list
... overlapping part is just storage and display not forbidden
characters
... from the three storage is more stable and makes more sense
... I'd be happy to seperate the three isseus
... I would just support storage size
... latest proposal is implementable
felix: so you would not support restriction of characters?
david: it's not stable at this time
... there is work needed to explore what regex is interoperable
etc.
... hard to do in a reasonable time frame
... it is a good idea
... but hard to do
... in time
felix: constraints via xml schema
<Yves_> felix: constrains in xml can be expressed with XSD
felix: or via schematron, path based constraint language
<Yves_> .. or schematron
<Yves_> .. those could be used for forbidden characters
<dF> +1
yves: not sure how that would work
... in extracted data
... you don't have the schema available when you process the
document
... it doesn't work during the translation
david: so you need a representation mechanism for
roundtripping?
felix: couldn't you have a schematron file for the extracted
content
yves: yes
... forbidden characters is not a huge issue
... length constraint is more used
<Jirka> There is CREPDL schema language for restricting
character repertoire
[40]http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~eb2m-mrt/crepdl/ns/structure/1.
0/index.xml
[40] http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~eb2m-mrt/crepdl/ns/structure/1.0/index.xml
felix: couldn't that be in schematron too? e.g. via xpath
<Jirka> It's ISO standard
felix: if there is a solution in schematron, shouldn't we use
that instead of re-inventing in ITS?
<scribe> ACTION: felix to make examples how length restriction
could work in schematron or in xsd [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action09]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-159 - Make examples how length
restriction could work in schematron or in xsd [on Felix Sasaki
- due 2012-07-12].
action-159: take also CREPDL language into account
<trackbot> ACTION-159 Make examples how length restriction
could work in schematron or in xsd notes added
<Yves_> Felix: seem storage aspect has consensus
<Yves_> Yves: yes
<Yves_> df: most useful and stable
<Yves_> felix: should it be its own data cat?
<dF> +1
<Yves_> +1
<Yves_> ACTION: yves to summarise this to giussepe? [recorded
in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action10]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-160 - Summarise this to giussepe? [on
Yves Savourel - due 2012-07-12].
Test suite design
<Yves_> action-168: ie. separation of length vs forbidden chars
<trackbot> Sorry... adding notes to ACTION-168 failed, please
let sysreq know about it
<Yves_> daveL: will take this taks
<Yves_> ... looking at felix scripts
<Yves_> .. probaly we need more than the w3c framework
<Yves_> .. but we can use it
<Yves_> .. and add to it
<Yves_> .. it's a way to structure test repository
<Yves_> felix: yes. I'll continue to make use of the ITS 1.0
tests
Auto language processing rule
[43]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jul/0010.html
[43] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0010.html
<Yves_> More about a transliterate rule
<Yves_> anyone want to implement this?
yves: shaun has implemented something, I think
... including also machine translation
<Yves_> .. how does it relate to BCP47
<Yves_> we should have same value
<Yves_> felix: BCP47 has additional decsriptor
yves: problem with bcp 47 extension, not used very widely
... haven't seen any real use case for that
david: agree with felix that we should try to be consistent
<Yves_> df: yes we should try to be consistent
<Yves_> .. should be mappable
<Yves_> ACTION: felix to talk to shaun about BCP47
compatibility [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action11]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-161 - Talk to shaun about BCP47
compatibility [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-07-12].
<Yves_> daveL: broader question. should we look at language
tags, etc. sourcelang, etc.
<Yves_> .. how those things work with BCP47?
<Yves_> issue would be: compatibility with BCP47 extensions
<Yves_> felix: any thoughts on this?
<dF> I agree that it is a more general issue
readiness
<Yves_> felix: long thread about that
<Yves_> daveL: summary:
<Yves_> .. from Dublin meeting, agreement seemed to say that
it's about telling a file is ready to be processed
<Yves_> .. with some extra features
<Yves_> .. but also there are more attributes
<Yves_> .. closely related to translation jobs
<Yves_> .. they could be optional
<Yves_> .. are the more general than just for readiness?
<Yves_> .. also overlap with TS116049(?)
<Yves_> .. to specify translation job status, etc.
<Yves_> .. so should this be just in readiness or more general
as translation parameters
<Yves_> .. it seems we were close to say we should ISO and
Linport to do this
<Yves_> .. should it be seprated from readiness?
<Yves_> felix: other thoughts?
<Yves_> dF: related to business relations between parties
<Yves_> .. not sure all this is ready for standardization
<Yves_> felix: maybe like for specialRequirements
<Yves_> .. some parts could be extracted as useful and easy to
implement
<Yves_> .. some atomic parts
<Yves_> .. a big beats for now.
<Yves_> .. but we don't want to kill those ideas either
<Yves_> daveL: pedro had some specific use cases.
<Yves_> .. maybe this could be addressing common use cases
<Yves_> .. i can follow up on that aspect
<Yves_> felix: could be also addition to the translate data cat
<Yves_> .. relates to conformance too
<Yves_> .. if we add to translate then implementation for
translate would have to implement this too
<dF> Pedro is trying to speak, I told him to q here
<Yves_> daveL: readiness is more for real-time translation
maybe
<Yves_> Pedro: we can provide requirements from real cases
<Yves_> .. we may have no time
<Yves_> .. our requirements may not be covered by readiness
<Yves_> .. priority, who does what, when, etc.
<Yves_> .. this is in the HTML page
<Yves_> .. and we can put it on the warpper
<Yves_> .. we have customers that need those metadata
<Yves_> felix: pedro, could you move on with those customer
<Yves_> .. and keep the WG in the loop
<Yves_> .. and provide example (like HTML code)
<Yves_> .. then we can put that either in the standard or as
best practices
<Yves_> .. if we can't put it in 2.0
<Yves_> pedro: yes
<Yves_> .. we have to do anyway
<Yves_> .. our requirements apply to our customers
<Yves_> felix: can you present a partial showcase in september
F2F?
<Yves_> pedro: for CMS of package 3 yes
<Yves_> .. for package 4, maybe some of it
<Yves_> .. we are implementing the solution for our customer
<philr> leave
<scribe> ACTION: pedro to present a readiness related partial
showcase in september f2f, to see what is ready for
standardization or what will be a best practice [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action12]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-162 - Present a readiness related
partial showcase in september f2f, to see what is ready for
standardization or what will be a best practice [on Pedro Luis
Díez Orzas - due 2012-07-12].
<Yves_> pedro: yes. we'll have to talk with Cocomore too
<Yves_> felix: we do want to hear your requirements
<Yves_> .. without worrying about what ends up in standard
<Yves_> .. please continue the excitment
<Yves_> pedro: hope to have partial implementation in september
domain discussion
<Yves_> felix: for this we need feedback from declan and Thomas
<Yves_> .. for the mapping
<Yves_> .. proposal on the table
[46]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
ts20/its20.html#domain-implementation
[46] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#domain-implementation
domainMapping="automotive auto, medical medicine, 'criminal
law' law, 'property law' law"/>
<Yves_> felix: list of strangs pairs
<Yves_> .. should we use URI instead of strings?
<Yves_> daveL: URI or strings
<Yves_> using URI doesn't break the definition
<Yves_> Felix: ok then
<Yves_> daveL: more a usage case
<Yves_> felix: then what the implementation need to do?
<Yves_> .. to be conformant
<Yves_> daveL: you just matching a string to a selection
<Yves_> .. in that case you have the option to use a more
structure way
<Yves_> .. of doing this
<Yves_> .. if there are overlap you have to have a solution
<Yves_> .. don't think it change sthe definition
<Yves_> felix: URI as a diferent type of string
<Yves_> daveL: yes
<Yves_> .. no fetching of the URI
<scribe> ACTION: felix to write an example of "string as URI"
for domain [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action13]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-163 - Write an example of "string as
URI" for domain [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-07-12].
aob
<Yves_> dF: did we had a quorum?
<Yves_> felix: we could decide the rules
<Yves_> dF: qorum easier if missing people are put on bad
standing
<Yves_> felix: we'll have a doodle pool to see how many people
we can get during the summer
<Yves_> daveL: call for the LRC conference (20-21 sept)
<Yves_> .. should coordinate on submission
<Yves_> .. deadline is end of july
<Yves_> .. CNGL wa splanning demo there
<Yves_> .. some demo should be relevant for MLW-LT
lrc conference is on the wiki at
[48]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Ev
entSchedule
[48] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/EventSchedule
<Yves_> .. showcase is on the day before
<Yves_> felix: no plan to submit yet
<Yves_> .. feel free to submit
<Yves_> .. notify about the showcase by email
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: 5 to for july and august [recorded in
[49]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: David to look into ISSUE-26 post editing data
categories [recorded in
[50]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: dlewis6 to look into ISSUE-26 post editing data
categories [recorded in
[51]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to make examples how length restriction
could work in schematron or in xsd [recorded in
[52]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to talk to shaun about BCP47 compatibility
[recorded in
[53]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to write an example of "string as URI" for
domain [recorded in
[54]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: fsasaki to create page for july availability
[recorded in
[55]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: fsasaki to put Shuan text in ODD file [recorded
in
[56]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: jirka to add the idValue to ODD [recorded in
[57]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: pedro to present a readiness related partial
showcase in september f2f, to see what is ready for
standardization or what will be a best practice [recorded in
[58]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: yves to summarise this to giussepe? [recorded in
[59]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to work on parameters [recorded in
[60]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to work on targetPointer [recorded in
[61]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 5 July 2012 15:30:04 UTC