RE: Comment on ITS 2.0 WD-its20-20121206 - Inline global rules in XHTML from Mauricio del Olmo on 2013-02-01 (public-multilingualweb-lt-comments@w3.org from February 2013)

From: Mauricio del Olmo <mauricio.delolmo@linguaserve.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 12:06:34 +0100
To: "'Felix Sasaki'" <fsasaki@w3.org>
Cc: <public-multilingualweb-lt-comments@w3.org>
Message-ID: <00d801ce006c$32b90fa0$982b2ee0$@linguaserve.com>
Hi Felix.

 

The usage we do of xhtml is for the interchange of the contents between the two parts only (CMS - LSP) not for the presentation of them in the web portal of the client. That task is abstracted and done by Drupal.

 

With that in mind my idea is that we keep the format as it is now until we finish with the translations of the VDMA contents and, after that, we could make the change in the implementation with the aim to show in the workshop in Rome the most correct or recommended solution (I understand that would be the desirable situation, no?).

I’ll talk with Cocomore about his thoughts on this change.

 

 

> One last remark about the interpretation of the example 29, it said “Using ITS 2.0 markup in XHTML” and “This examples illustrates the use of ITS 2.0 local markup and global rules in XHTML.”. From my point of view, that left little space to misinterpretation.

> Agree - now we removed the global rules, and I think we should not have them, at least not outside of "script", since we don't want to recommend that. Let me know what you think.

 

The example seems fine now if we want to encourage that use.

 

Thank you for all.

__________________________________

Mauricio del Olmo Martínez

Dpto. Técnico/I+D+i

Linguaserve Internacionalización de Servicios, S.A.

Tel.: +34 91 761 64 60 ext. 0421
Fax: +34 91 542 89 28 

E-mail:  <mailto:tecnico@linguaserve.com> tecnico@linguaserve.com

www.linguaserve.com <http://www.linguaserve.com/> 

 

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"According to the provisions set forth in articles 21 and 22 of Law 34/2002 of July 11 regarding Information Society and eCommerce Services, we will store and use your personal data with the sole purpose of marketing the products and services offered by LINGUASERVE INTERNACIONALIZACIÓN DE SERVICIOS, S.A. If you do not wish your personal data to be stored and handled, or you do not wish to receive further information regarding products and services offered by our company, please e-mail us to clients@linguaserve.com. Your request will be processed immediately.”

__________________________________

 

De: Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org] 
Enviado el: viernes, 01 de febrero de 2013 11:08
Para: Mauricio del Olmo
CC: public-multilingualweb-lt-comments@w3.org
Asunto: Re: Comment on ITS 2.0 WD-its20-20121206 - Inline global rules in XHTML

 

Am 01.02.13 10:56, schrieb Mauricio del Olmo:

Hello Felix.

 

All this comes from the discussion we had in Lyon about the interchange format. If you remember, we had the problem of embedding html inside the interchange xml (a necessity with CMS generated contents) and to avoid using an external file for the rules because that created dependencies between files that gives problems with the interchange between the two sides (CMS and LSP). Also we used CDATA for embedding the html content but that disallowed the use of global rules.

 

After the discussion with the WG we decided to switch the interchange format to xhtml because it had all the advantages. As shown in the example, we could use global rules inside the same document, put html content directly in it and all the benefits of xml as integration format.


I remember that discussion - but I had thought that you have a requirement to give valid XHTML to your client, no? I don't remember why embedding via "script" in XHTML doesn't work for you - could you clarifiy? It would have the benefit that your XHTML is valid.
This example (previous version of example 29) is not valid XHTML:
[ 

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" " <http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
    <head>
        <title>XHTML and ITS2.0</title>
        <its:rules xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its" version="2.0"
            xmlns:h="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
            <its:domainRule selector="/h:html/h:body"
                domainPointer="/h:html/h:head/h:meta[@name='keywords']/@content" />
            <its:locNoteRule locNoteType="description" selector="/h:html/h:body">
                <its:locNote>ITS Rules can directly used inside of XHTML.</its:locNote>
            </its:locNoteRule>
        </its:rules>
        <meta name="keywords" content="ITS, domain, 'localization note', example" />
    </head>
    <body>
        <h1>XHTML and ITS2.0</h1>
        <p>Don't use <span its-loc-note="Internationalization Tag Set">ITS</span> prefixed
            attributes inside the content, like its:locNote.</p>
    </body>
</html>

]


This example (with rules in "script") is valid XHTML:

[ 

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
    <head>
        <title>XHTML and ITS2.0</title><script type="application/xml">
        <its:rules xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its" version="2.0"
            xmlns:h="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
            <its:domainRule selector="/h:html/h:body"
                domainPointer="/h:html/h:head/h:meta[@name='keywords']/@content" />
            <its:locNoteRule locNoteType="description" selector="/h:html/h:body">
                <its:locNote>ITS Rules can directly used inside of XHTML.</its:locNote>
            </its:locNoteRule>
        </its:rules></script>
        <meta name="keywords" content="ITS, domain, 'localization note', example" />
    </head>
    <body>
        <h1>XHTML and ITS2.0</h1>
        <p>Don't use <span its-loc-note="Internationalization Tag Set">ITS</span> prefixed
            attributes inside the content, like its:locNote.</p>
    </body>
</html>

]




 

The problem in changing the implementation now is that we are already translating the contents of VDMA (Cocomore’s client) with this approach and we have planned to show that in Rome. Also we have a schedule to follow to achieve this.


I understand this - but I want to make sure that we give the right guidance. And above change (having "script with rules element" instead of invalid XHTML) is probably rather minor?




 

One last remark about the interpretation of the example 29, it said “Using ITS 2.0 markup in XHTML” and “This examples illustrates the use of ITS 2.0 local markup and global rules in XHTML.”. From my point of view, that left little space to misinterpretation.


Agree - now we removed the global rules, and I think we should not have them, at least not outside of "script", since we don't want to recommend that. Let me know what you think.

Best,

Felix





 

 

Sorry for the problems we give.

__________________________________

Mauricio del Olmo Martínez

Dpto. Técnico/I+D+i

Linguaserve Internacionalización de Servicios, S.A.

Tel.: +34 91 761 64 60 ext. 0421
Fax: +34 91 542 89 28 

E-mail:  <mailto:tecnico@linguaserve.com> tecnico@linguaserve.com

www.linguaserve.com <http://www.linguaserve.com/> 

 

«En cumplimiento con lo previsto con los artículos 21 y 22 de la Ley 34/2002, de 11 de julio, de Servicios de la Sociedad de Información y Comercio Electrónico, le informamos que procederemos al archivo y tratamiento de sus datos exclusivamente con fines de promoción de los productos y servicios ofrecidos por LINGUASERVE INTERNACIONALIZACIÓN DE SERVICIOS, S.A. En caso de que Vdes. no deseen que procedamos al archivo y tratamiento de los datos proporcionados, o no deseen recibir comunicaciones comerciales sobre los productos y servicios ofrecidos, comuníquenoslo a clients@linguaserve.com, y su petición será inmediatamente cumplida.»

 

"According to the provisions set forth in articles 21 and 22 of Law 34/2002 of July 11 regarding Information Society and eCommerce Services, we will store and use your personal data with the sole purpose of marketing the products and services offered by LINGUASERVE INTERNACIONALIZACIÓN DE SERVICIOS, S.A. If you do not wish your personal data to be stored and handled, or you do not wish to receive further information regarding products and services offered by our company, please e-mail us to clients@linguaserve.com. Your request will be processed immediately.”

__________________________________

 

De: Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org] 
Enviado el: jueves, 31 de enero de 2013 20:53
Para: public-multilingualweb-lt-comments@w3.org
Asunto: Re: Comment on ITS 2.0 WD-its20-20121206 - Inline global rules in XHTML

 

So probably we should remove example 29, because it demonstrates a SHOULD NOT statement.

With regards to tests for XHTML: I can't imagine people to use the approach of inline global rules if we remove the statement. Mauricio, would it be possible for you to switch to the "in script" or "linked global rules" approach?

At Yves: you are right about the "should" and "Should not". I will create an issue pointing to this thread. 

I think this change would resolve the inline global rules topic, but not the language attribute usage. Thoughts?

- Felix

Am 31.01.13 20:17, schrieb Mauricio del Olmo:

Because if you read that phrase that discourages the use of inline global rules, with references to the script way, and below is an xhtml example with ITS global rules xml style we thought: “ok, that’s the way it should be instead”.

 

[…]

        <its:rules xmlns:its= <http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its> "http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its" version="2.0"

            xmlns:h= <http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml> "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

            <its:domainRule selector="/h:html/h:body"

                domainPointer="/h:html/h:head/h:meta[@name='keywords']/@content" />

            <its:locNoteRule locNoteType="description" selector="/h:html/h:body">

                <its:locNote>ITS Rules can directly used inside of XHTML.</its:locNote>

            </its:locNoteRule>

        </its:rules>

[…]

 

 

__________________________________

Mauricio del Olmo Martínez

Dpto. Técnico/I+D+i

Linguaserve Internacionalización de Servicios, S.A.

Tel.: +34 91 761 64 60 ext. 0421
Fax: +34 91 542 89 28 

E-mail:  <mailto:tecnico@linguaserve.com> tecnico@linguaserve.com

www.linguaserve.com <http://www.linguaserve.com/> 

 

«En cumplimiento con lo previsto con los artículos 21 y 22 de la Ley 34/2002, de 11 de julio, de Servicios de la Sociedad de Información y Comercio Electrónico, le informamos que procederemos al archivo y tratamiento de sus datos exclusivamente con fines de promoción de los productos y servicios ofrecidos por LINGUASERVE INTERNACIONALIZACIÓN DE SERVICIOS, S.A. En caso de que Vdes. no deseen que procedamos al archivo y tratamiento de los datos proporcionados, o no deseen recibir comunicaciones comerciales sobre los productos y servicios ofrecidos, comuníquenoslo a clients@linguaserve.com, y su petición será inmediatamente cumplida.»

 

"According to the provisions set forth in articles 21 and 22 of Law 34/2002 of July 11 regarding Information Society and eCommerce Services, we will store and use your personal data with the sole purpose of marketing the products and services offered by LINGUASERVE INTERNACIONALIZACIÓN DE SERVICIOS, S.A. If you do not wish your personal data to be stored and handled, or you do not wish to receive further information regarding products and services offered by our company, please e-mail us to clients@linguaserve.com. Your request will be processed immediately.”

__________________________________

 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jirka Kosek [mailto:jirka@kosek.cz] 
Enviado el: jueves, 31 de enero de 2013 20:01
Para: Mauricio del Olmo
CC: 'Yves Savourel'; public-multilingualweb-lt-comments@w3.org
Asunto: Re: Comment on ITS 2.0 WD-its20-20121206 - Inline global rules in XHTML

 

On 31.1.2013 19:44, Mauricio del Olmo wrote:

 

> Yes, we use global rules with its xml syntax like in the example (not 

> inside script) and that is what we understood reading the phrase “and 

> < <http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#rfc2119> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#rfc2119> SHOULD NOT use 

> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#html5-inline-global-rule

> s> inline global rules” that points to the section that describes the 

> rules inside <script> tags: “Inline global rules 

> < <http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#rfc2119> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#rfc2119> MUST be 

> specified inside script which has…”

 

Hm, wondering why you think this is correct understanding.

 

"... SHOULD NOT use inline global rules..." means that you preferably should use different means like local attributes or external global rules. If you need to use inline global rules anyway then it's pretty clear how to do this:

 

"Inline global rules MUST be specified inside script which has..."

 

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Received on Friday, 1 February 2013 11:07:06 UTC