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Re: Response to your LC Comment -2393 on Media Ontology spec

From: Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2010 11:43:50 +0100
Message-ID: <4CCFEB66.70703@w3.org>
To: 'Silvia Pfeiffer' <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
CC: "public-media-annotation@w3.org" <public-media-annotation@w3.org>
Silvia,

Did you have the time to fill the WebM multimedia
container format mapping table?

I would like to include it the spec for our F2F.

Thanks for your help,
Thierry



OK, will do, but not before the weekend.
Thanks,
Silvia.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org> wrote:
 > Silvia,
 >
 > You have kindly offered to provide information for the WebM multimedia
 > container format mapping table.
 >
 > As I have no feed back from James, could you please send us this
 > information.
 > The WebM template is available at
 > 
http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
 >
 > Best,
 >
 > Thierry.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Le 15/10/2010 07:41, Silvia Pfeiffer a écrit :
 >>
 >> Speex is a codec and not a metadata format. Ogg Speex is already covered
 >> by
 >>
 >> 
http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x16776,
 >> just as that covers Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora.
 >>
 >> Cheers,
 >> Silvia.
 >>
 >>
 >> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:36 PM, James
 >> Salsman<jsalsman@talknicer.com>wrote:
 >>
 >>> Silvia,
 >>>
 >>> Thierry specifically told me that Speex wasn't approved because it was
 >>> not a metadata format.
 >>>
 >>> Are you saying that Speex is already included in the ontology under 
ogg?
 >>>
 >>> Sincerely,
 >>> James Salsman
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer
 >>> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>  wrote:
 >>>>
 >>>> James,
 >>>>
 >>>> Nobody says that media formats do not contain metadata. But you are
 >>>> referring to codec data here and not to media fromats. Codec data 
never
 >>>> stands on its own and can thus not expose metadata. It always 
exposes it
 >>>
 >>> as
 >>>>
 >>>> part of a container. Thus, Ogg Speex already is covered. And you 
have to
 >>>> regard metadata for VP8 in the context of WebM.
 >>>>
 >>>> Thus, when Thierry asks for a spec for WebM metadata, that will cover
 >>>> the
 >>>> VP8 metadata.
 >>>>
 >>>> Regards,
 >>>> Silvia.
 >>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 3:07 PM, James Salsman<jsalsman@talknicer.com>
 >>>> wrote:
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Dear Thierry,
 >>>>>
 >>>>> I most certainly do not cancel my objection.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Please send me the names and email addresses of all persons who
 >>>>> purport to claim that media format definitions do not contain
 >>>>> metadata.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> I have asked the VP8 and Speex media authorities to complete your
 >>>>> ontology forms.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Sincerely,
 >>>>> James Salsman
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Thierry MICHEL<tmichel@w3.org> 
wrote:
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> James,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> We need to wrap up this issue in order to allow the MAWG to move
 >>>
 >>> forward
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> the
 >>>>>> Media Ontology spec.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Could you please respond to this email and say:
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 1- that you cancel your formal objection.
 >>>>>> 2- that you agree to the MAWG proposal to include a
 >>>>>> WebM multimedia container format mapping table
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> as you had referred to
 >>>>>> http://www.webmproject.org
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 3- Do you plan to send us the WebM multimedia container format 
mapping
 >>>>>> table, whith the appropriate info ?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>
 >>> 
http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Best,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Thierry
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Le 12/10/2010 08:54, Thierry MICHEL a écrit :
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Silvia,
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> This is exactly what I have told James, in my earlier email in
 >>>
 >>> response
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> to his last call comment.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>
 >>> 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0225.html
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> extract:
 >>>>>>> "To focus on your request to include VP8 and speex in our Ontology,
 >>>
 >>> the
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> mapping tables are intended for multimedia *metadata formats*.
 >>>>>>> - VP8 is an open video compression format (codec).
 >>>>>>> - Speex is a free audio codec for Free Speech.
 >>>>>>> These are not *metadata formats*, and therefore not meant to be
 >>>
 >>> listed
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> in our mapping tables".
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> As James raised an objection if this 2 formats were not included, I
 >>>>>>> have
 >>>>>>> asked him to provide the 2 mapping tables for Speex and VP8, 
and see
 >>>>>>> what he could provide ...
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> And, as we had concluded in the MAWG that on the container carries
 >>>>>>> metadata, I have in a couple of emails asked James to provide a
 >>>
 >>> mapping
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> table for the media container formats WebM.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> an pointed to the template to use
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>
 >>> 
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/CR/mapping_table-php.html
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I am still waiting for James to provide this information if he 
wants
 >>>
 >>> to
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> see it in the spec. A place holder for this containet is already
 >>>>>>> created
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>
 >>> 
http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Cheers,
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Thierry.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Le 12/10/2010 03:43, Silvia Pfeiffer a écrit :
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>> James, Thierry,
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>> Speex and VP8 are codecs and don't by themselves have accessible
 >>>>>>>> metadata.
 >>>>>>>> They, however, are not distributed as codec data, but rather 
inside
 >>>>>>>> media
 >>>>>>>> containers.
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>> When we talk about Speex in files, it comes in an Ogg 
container and
 >>>
 >>> as
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>> such
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>
 >>> 
http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x16776should
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>> satisfy your need for a mapping table.
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>> When we talk about VP8 in files, it comes in a WebM container with
 >>>>>>>> Vorbis.
 >>>>>>>> Somebody needs to fill in
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>
 >>> 
http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
 >>> !
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>> If nobody is doing it, let me know and I'll make the time to 
dig it
 >>>>>>>> out.
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>> Cheers,
 >>>>>>>> Silvia.
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Thierry MICHEL<tmichel@w3.org>
 >>>
 >>> wrote:
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> Dear James,
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> In your latest email to the MAWG response to your comment, 
you seem
 >>>>>>>>> to
 >>>>>>>>> disagree with the MAWG proposal.
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>
 >>> 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0245.html
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> "I don't agree with the statement that speex or VP8 are not
 >>>
 >>> metadata
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> formats. They are audio and audiovisual media formats which 
contain
 >>>>>>>>> both metadata and data in their specifications.
 >>>>>>>>> This disagreement can be resolved if speex and VP8 are 
included in
 >>>>>>>>> the
 >>>>>>>>> media ontology".
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> The group is currently discussing your objection. Speex is an 
audio
 >>>>>>>>> format, and the Ontology spec is mainly incorporating images and
 >>>>>>>>> video
 >>>>>>>>> metadata formats.
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> To move forward, could you please send the MAWG the 2 mapping
 >>>
 >>> tables
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> for
 >>>>>>>>> Speex and VP8.
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> Please use as template the following tables with the exact 
name of
 >>>>>>>>> the
 >>>>>>>>> property being mapped to, like ma:identifier, ma:title, etc.
 >>>>>>>>> and the same columns: Relation, How to do the mapping, Datatype,
 >>>>>>>>> Required
 >>>>>>>>> vs Optional,XPath
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> templates:
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>
 >>> 
http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#metadata-mapping-table
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> Could you please send these ASAP as we are about to release a new
 >>>>>>>>> publication of the Media Ontology spec
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>> Best regards,
 >>>>>>>>> Thierry Michel
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>
 >>>>
 >>>
 >>
Received on Tuesday, 2 November 2010 10:43:57 UTC

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