Re: AR Web

Glad to be on the same page. Your markup example definitely makes clear
sense to me <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevincurry/> in that context.

By the way, why not ditch the ml- prefix? FBX describes the model's format
and <model src="..."> should be understood by anything that can render FBX,
just like <img src="..."> can render JPG, PNG, etc. The ml- prefix inhibits
interoperability.

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 11:13 PM Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 5:10 PM kevin curry <kmcurry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I do. There were many examples of what Pete referenced, and they were all
>> bad. The serious, short answer is evolution. What you are talking about
>> now, Rik, is no longer the same as what Pete referenced. I think hardware,
>> perhaps in AR specifically, is the strongest influence. But the scenario
>> was thought about differently then that what I think you mean now. Then it
>> was to figure out: how can we get our existing (2D) tools, like web
>> browsers/pages into our 3D space? Eventually it assumed all of the
>> functionality of browsers. I mean explicitly, we implemented web browsers
>> (and other 2D tools) inside 3D worlds. What I think you mean now, Rik, is
>> an evolved scenario, enabled by much improved AR hardware, handshaking
>> standards, and possibly some re usability of HTML/CSS between the page and
>> an augmented space. I'm thinking about it like this - I could be way off:
>> I'm looking at my phone at a model on Sketchfab. I put on Magic Leap and I
>> look at the web page. The model I'm looking at in Sketchfab on by browser
>> is now in the room in front of me.
>>
>
> Correct.
> For instance, take this small example of HTML from Prismatic:
>
> <ml-model src="whale.fbx"
>
>    style="width:300px; height:300px"
>
>    z-offset="500px"> </ml-model>
>
>
> ml-model is a custom element that is laid out like any regular DOM
> element. Prismatic will then load and display 'whale.fbx' in the exact
> location of that element but floating 500px in front of it and sized to the
> CSS box.
> When the element scrolls, the model will scroll along with it. If the
> element scrolls out of view, the model will disappear.
>
> This is indeed the reverse of what some people have been working on.
> (Bring web browsers into 3D)
> It's conceptually much simpler since we rely on established browser
> interactions and UI. I believe this also solves a lot of security problems.
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 6:52 PM Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 2:49 PM Pete Markiewicz <pindiespace@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd have to say - this has already been tried. About 10 years ago,
>>>> there was a browser (Australian company, but I can't remember the name)
>>>> that specifically levitated standard HTML elements into the third
>>>> dimension. Went nowhere.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do you remember why?
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Carpenter <
>>>> joshcarpenter@google.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > Is it HTML elements in VR that is dead, or decomposable content in a
>>>>> regular web page? (or both?)
>>>>>
>>>>> Specifically we were investigating the ability to  take a traditional
>>>>> 2D HTML/CSS page, loaded in a XR viewing context (eg VR HMD), and
>>>>> progressively enhance it into a 3D composition, by using styles (eg 3D
>>>>> transforms) to position flat ements in 3D space, beyond the bounds of the
>>>>> parent window.
>>>>>
>>>>> The was part of a broader push to explore composable, declarative XR
>>>>> web layout standards. Distinct from imperative WebXR / WebGL.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s not “dead” per se, as it wasn’t ever really alive. Aside from
>>>>> some very cool prototypes built on Firefox by my MozVR colleagues back in
>>>>> 2015 (code that, AFAIK, was never merged to master).
>>>>>
>>>>> Rather, in the past six months our squad has deemed this approach
>>>>> probably too hard to be worth pursuing, relative to other approaches closer
>>>>> to what we’re talking about in this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 8:15 PM Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 2:54 PM Josh Carpenter <
>>>>>> joshcarpenter@google.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You might find those links I posted in my initial response
>>>>>>> interesting, John. I was for a while very enamored with the idea of being
>>>>>>> able to break page layouts into compositions in 3D space by leveraging CSS
>>>>>>> 3D transforms. At Moz and Google we built some prototypes that, to my
>>>>>>> satisfaction at least, demonstrated that the approach was easy for a
>>>>>>> relatively experienced web designer/dev to work with, and surprisingly
>>>>>>> compelling/fun. Turn a Vimeo video into a 60 ft screen in VR with a few
>>>>>>> lines of CSS :) The framework that Diego Marcos and team built to help
>>>>>>> enable to experiments at Moz was actually a forerunner of A-Frame in some
>>>>>>> ways. But more recently, based on cumulative discussions with browser
>>>>>>> engine people, we’ve come to believe that approach would be extremely hard
>>>>>>> to make work in existing engines, at web scale, and that the much better
>>>>>>> place to start is composable models in 2D compositions. That’s not to say
>>>>>>> the dream of HTML elements in 3D space is dead, but more back burnered, at
>>>>>>> least in my team’s thinking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it HTML elements in VR that is dead, or decomposable content in a
>>>>>> regular web page? (or both?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can see that bringing HTML in VR would have a lot of landmines
>>>>>> around security and privacy but decomposable content should not be affected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 2:30 PM John D. Gwinner <john@gwinner.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>Is there a group that is currently working on extending regular
>>>>>>>> web pages with 3D content?<<
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had an idea a while ago about extending Wordpress pages into 3D
>>>>>>>> objects; sort of "spreading" the page around in 3D space, but that's about
>>>>>>>> all I've done so far. It would suddenly inject a lot of default content
>>>>>>>> into the world. Sort of a "Minority Report" API (how I explain it to
>>>>>>>> Hollywood types).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had a (traditional) publisher that wanted me to cover WordPress
>>>>>>>> alongside A-Frame and React in my second book (I wrote the book "Getting
>>>>>>>> Started with React VR[now 360]", but the acquisition editor insisted on
>>>>>>>> WordPress being covered in the second VR book "because it was another one
>>>>>>>> of the larger web API's."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It did get me to thinking ... there could be something to that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> == John ==
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> *From:* Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com>
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 17, 2018 3:23 PM
>>>>>>>> *To:* public-immersive-web@w3.org
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* AR Web
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> last week at Magic Leap we released our browser Helio.
>>>>>>>> You can find an overview here:
>>>>>>>> https://www.magicleap.com/experiences/helio
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As part of its feature set, we created a set of extensions that
>>>>>>>> allows authors to create and manipulate 3D objects such as animated models
>>>>>>>> and textures. It also allows extraction so content can be pulled out of the
>>>>>>>> browser and placed in the user's environment.
>>>>>>>> To make development easy, we created a library called "Prismatic"
>>>>>>>> that provides a simple declarative syntax.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We'd like to iterate on our current approach with others vendors
>>>>>>>> and work towards an open standard that works on 2D, AR and VR devices.
>>>>>>>> I looked at the current community and working groups but couldn't
>>>>>>>> find one that covers our current use case.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My questions are:
>>>>>>>> - Is there a group that is currently working on extending regular
>>>>>>>> web pages with 3D content?
>>>>>>>> - If not, is anyone interested in working with us on this?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please let me know if you want more details on our current
>>>>>>>> implementation. I'm happy to explain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>   Rik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Josh Carpenter
>>>>>>> UX Lead, WebVR/AR
>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> Josh Carpenter
>>>>> UX Lead, WebVR/AR
>>>>> Google
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ============================================================
>>>> =================
>>>> *Dr. Pete Markiewicz*
>>>> *Email:* pindiespace@gmail.com
>>>> *Portfolio:* http://plyojump.com
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__plyojump.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=nobtEJABlN9Iwgv1wZHv3x1KQW1gph6BYfhjhVSBZqU&e=>
>>>> *Github:* http://github.com/pindiespace
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__github.com_pindiespace&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=Z0jsSqLhFmC7A5JRUAFpZPA8Zk46-mDNMFv0cCUs8Rw&e=>
>>>> *Linkedin:* http://linkedin.com/in/pindiespace
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__linkedin.com_in_pindiespace&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=z7u1c_tGQ_eUu7qlhnyg9fVfqm0wrWzU-KWE3RnNbSQ&e=>
>>>> ============================================================
>>>> =================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *My "Ux in VR" presentations on Google Docs (note you can comment)WebVR
>>>> 1.0
>>>> APIhttps://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13a29m0SbpTeItFP8fjrSoKNb7nsjAd4DC9lWnokWEfg/edit?usp=sharing
>>>> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13a29m0SbpTeItFP8fjrSoKNb7nsjAd4DC9lWnokWEfg/edit?usp=sharing>Sustainable
>>>> Ux in
>>>> VRhttps://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OTXaz3RuV0HWgM754PRMUC7d2KYVHH974s5hnAt53wk/edit?usp=sharing
>>>> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OTXaz3RuV0HWgM754PRMUC7d2KYVHH974s5hnAt53wk/edit?usp=sharing>Sustainable
>>>> virtual design blog:* http://sustainablevirtualdesign.wordpress.com
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__sustainablevirtualdesign.wordpress.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=4fBaHb4RVGTcTLSqhOU-NPYCp_dTpdHG6Vvs8bUf8iA&e=>
>>>> *Sustainability template:* http://greenboilerplate.com
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__greenboilerplate.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=cguDi-PU8IsqSt9ZxuAekf6srqpLfGK6Vn7KKlaS4rw&e=>
>>>> *Sustainable Ux in Virtual Reality for Sustainable Ux 2017 (narrated): *
>>>> *https://youtu.be/bU0tz05lcBw
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_bU0tz05lcBw&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=A6efN4akNQhNM7TkafUQ2p0eWVtPSP7uqCNHjYE8KrM&e=>*
>>>> ============================================================
>>>> =================
>>>> *Buy my book! *- Millennials and the Popular Culture
>>>> *Lifecourse:* http://www.lifecourse.com/store/catalog/lca/mpc.html
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lifecourse.com_store_catalog_lca_mpc.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=p0tcO1bSH_pIRmNicqE11Uz4PKOCTbGqIzXbR-X9GRY&e=>
>>>> *Amazon Author Page:*
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Pete-Markiewicz/e/B0069VZ7BG/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_2
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.amazon.com_Pete-2DMarkiewicz_e_B0069VZ7BG_ref-3Dntt-5Fathr-5Fdp-5Fpel-5Fpop-5F2&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=RvaiOQ2Ib9e2n8Gsd0CxAAdW8x7G_yVPkXecG-eOkmc&e=>
>>>> ============================================================
>>>> =================
>>>> *On that page, see my DARPA Grand Challenge 2005 entry video, "Team
>>>> Robomonster":*
>>>> *Team Robomonster *(DARPA 2005 Grand Challenge):
>>>> http://robotsthatjump.wordpress.com/category/team-robomonster/
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotsthatjump.wordpress.com_category_team-2Drobomonster_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=S8fL7YyqlvRUht4RglLbMH2vcNwcc47nmaYJKmDxeGY&e=>
>>>> ============================================================
>>>> =================
>>>> *Indiespace *(1st to sell downloaded music, March 1994):
>>>> http://www.indiespace.com
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.indiespace.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=TG1xR_YjrzgJDWlPwR448gLGBvTf8J9gV7xUCgstioo&e=>.
>>>> Also see http://archive.org
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__archive.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=nIEqooDQSb6JeBaIGZW-pjiJdTw7nkDXAyHn2I-YJ5I&e=>
>>>>  under
>>>> "Kspace.com" 1996 for our original site.
>>>> ============================================================
>>>> =================
>>>>
>>>