i18n Core telecon minutes 20080-02-06

http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-core-minutes.html


                     Internationalization Core WG

06 Feb 2008

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Homework#Agenda_topics

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-core-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Addison, Richard Ishida, Michael, Andrew

   Regrets
          David

   Chair
          Addison Phillips

   Scribe
          Addison Phillips

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Agenda
         2. [6]Info Share
         3. [7]Action Items
         4. [8]Case Folding in CSS 2.1
         5. [9]HTML5 and CharMod conformance
         6. [10]styling in HTML5 and dir on public list thread: needs
            follow up
         7. [11]Named entities for bidi controls vs. markup
         8. [12]AOB?
     * [13]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

Agenda

   [14]http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Homework#Agenda_topics

     [14] http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Homework#Agenda_topics

Info Share

   richard: kevin novak was formerly a wg member from Library of
   Congress; a new representative will be joining us shortly

Action Items

   Addison to finish revising Unicode Migration for publication;
   Addison to resolve editing issues

   Addison: check C14N XML 1.1 for health warning on normalization and
   comment appropriately if there is not one
   ... contact C14N XML about IRI issue and seek resolution

   <scribe> DONE in
   [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008JanMar/
   0019.html

     [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008JanMar/0019.html

   Felix to contact XML Schema to ask them not to close language
   validation issue before we've seen the wording

   Richard create notes on how to use the wiki template

   Richard to publish Character encoding for Beginners article [DONE]

Case Folding in CSS 2.1

   [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2007OctDec
   /0050.html

     [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2007OctDec/0050.html

   addison: suggests that references to Unicode case-folding and a
   health warning on using default locale might be appropriate in a
   "complete" reference

   richard: thought we would suggest not doing case folding generally

   addison: also: my suggestions are kind of too heavy-weight
   ... suggestion that we document something somewhere else that others
   can reference

   richard: suggest that we start small
   ... don't start with Note status
   ... just put basic ideas down first
   ... put to wiki or blog first

   <scribe> ACTION: Addison: write basic outline in wiki for a note on
   case folding [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-core-minutes.html#action01]

HTML5 and CharMod conformance

   addison: status of architecture WG and it's work items... and our
   relation to them

   (discussion of background of charmod and also what conformance to
   charmod means)

   andrew: they call out their position well

   addison: need to decide if "we" (meaning CharMod) (or they) got it
   "wrong"

   (discussion of how UA's interpret iso8859-1 vs. windows-1252)

   andrew: also people using custom fonts with iso8859-1 as the
   declared encoding
   ... also interplay between encoding, runtime, etc.
   ... two issues: what browsers do is one thing and what authors
   should do is another
   ... should separate what authors do and what browsers should do

   addison: this is the ultimate fallback after all other
   considerations have been applied
   ... charmod has a requirement that if something says encoding 'x',
   then you must use encoding 'x'
   ... but html5 says if 8859-1, then bytes 0x80->0x9F should be
   interpreted as 1252

   mick: so are we saying we should change charmod?

   addison: maybe... but maybe just endorse their "willful violation"
   ... have a table in my day job where I do this for a variety of
   encodings :-)

   richard: support writing up questions if we don't have answers

   addison: strong feelings of opposition to what they've done?

   richard: don't know enough yet; maybe martin?
   ... or possibly françois...

   andrew: not to concerned about what they tell browser writers to do,
   but they need to be clear about what authors should do
   ... they should provide strong guidance to authors; for example, if
   it is 1252, then it should be labeled windows-1252

   mick: agree; should be fixed at the author, rather than browser,
   level---browsers didn't create this problem

   addison: +1

   <scribe> ACTION: andrew: write up a position statement describing
   why the willful violation exists and advising authors on the Right
   Thing to do with encoding declaration [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-core-minutes.html#action02]

styling in HTML5 and dir on public list thread: needs follow up

   defer for felix's attendance

Named entities for bidi controls vs. markup

   addison: Martin was responding to our TPAC notes, where there was a
   suggestion of having the Unicode bidi controls as entities (instead
   of markup)

   [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2007OctDec/
   0144.html

     [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2007OctDec/0144.html

   richard: the problem is that named entities don't translate well
   into XML
   ... probably should get XML 1.0 6E to incorporate some of this

   addison: actually as named entities?

   richard: doubt they'd consider it; there are alreasy a few in there
   ... HTML maybe should have some of these

   addison: now we have two ways of marking bidi (controls vs. markup)
   and this would add a third

   andrew: it gives you something to see in your ascii editor
   ... no good if you're in an RTL editing environment

   richard: anywhere you can't use markup you can't use entities either
   ... except for attributes or elements such as title
   ... and entities might be valuable there

   addison: title and attribute argument is somewhat compelling
   ... already can put controls as NCRs... but that's not user
   friendly... have mysterious code point references

   richard: but if you know these things, you probably just want the
   code points........
   ... need to publich proposal or question for feedback

   mick: write to winter list?

   addison: also unicode bidi list

   <scribe> ACTION: Michael: write a proposal/summary message for
   eventual distribution to winter, et al, relating to doing bidi
   entities vs. markup vs. controls [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-core-minutes.html#action03]

   send to member list; target next week if possible or the week after
   if not

AOB?

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Addison: write basic outline in wiki for a note on
   case folding [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-core-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: andrew: write up a position statement describing why
   the willful violation exists and advising authors on the Right Thing
   to do with encoding declaration [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-core-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Michael: write a proposal/summary message for eventual
   distribution to winter, et al, relating to doing bidi entities vs.
   markup vs. controls [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-core-minutes.html#action03]

   [End of minutes]

============
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
 
http://www.w3.org/International/
http://rishida.net/blog/
http://rishida.net/

Received on Monday, 18 February 2008 17:56:42 UTC