Re: allow footer in blockquote for citations

Hi Andrew,
After looking at markup patterns people use I have updated the definition
of blockquote, to allow use of cite for in-text attribution.

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element

feedback welcome!

--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>


On 29 August 2013 13:29, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
> thanks for the clarification, understand now. initial reasoning is to keep
> metadata in an element that is recognised now by assistive tech (for
> example) as containing  "information about its section such as who wrote
> it, links to related documents, copyright data, and the like."
>
> but from the use cases/examples provided on
> http://oli.jp/example/blockquote-metadata/
>  it would be appropriate to provide a identify to include in line
> references and cite seems like a good candidate.
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
> On 29 August 2013 10:46, Andrew Herrington <a.d.herrington@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I think my query wasn't clear.
>>
>> I generally support the change in the spec but I don't understand why
>> we're requiring the attribution (if there is one) inside the block quote to
>> be inside a footer element (see bolded part below)
>>
>> "Attribution for the quotation, may be be placed inside the blockquote<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element> element,
>> but must be inside a footer<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-footer-element>
>>  element"
>>
>> Point 2 on
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Aug/0100.html seems
>> to back the assumption that most people use the pattern:
>>
>> <blockquote>
>> Blah blah
>> <cite><a href=”http://example.com/foo”>A person</a></cite>
>> </blockquote>
>>
>> rather than:
>>
>> <blockquote>
>> Blah blah
>> <footer><cite><a href=”http://example.com/foo”>A
>> person</a></cite><footer>
>> </blockquote>
>>
>> I think footer should still be allowed (for anything that doesn't fit
>> inside a cite element) but I think we should allow the first pattern as
>> people are using it and it has semantic value.
>>
>>
>> KInd regards,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29 Aug 2013, at 10:21, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> >Apologies if I missed this but what is the reason for requiring the
>> citation to be in a footer
>>
>> its not a requirement,
>> its a relaxing of current requirements to allow for a common use, while
>> providing a way to indicate "this is metadata about the quote"
>>
>> suggest reading-
>>
>> new (proposed):
>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element
>>
>> old:
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html51/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element
>>
>> change based on:
>>
>>    - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22996 (note: am not
>>    closing bug as this discussion has some time to run yet)
>>    - http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2013/on-citing-quotations-again/
>>    - http://oli.jp/2011/blockquote/
>>    - http://html5doctor.com/blockquote-q-cite/
>>    - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Aug/0100.htmland related
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> SteveF
>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>
>>
>> On 29 August 2013 10:15, Andrew Herrington <a.d.herrington@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Apologies if I missed this but what is the reason for requiring the
>>> citation to be in a footer within the blockquote? Is this in case the quote
>>> itself contains a citation?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:55, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> some details:
>>>
>>> new (proposed):
>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element
>>>
>>> old:
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html51/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element
>>>
>>> change based on:
>>>
>>>    - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22996 (note: am not
>>>    closing bug as this discussion has some time to run yet)
>>>    - http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2013/on-citing-quotations-again/
>>>    - http://oli.jp/2011/blockquote/
>>>    - http://html5doctor.com/blockquote-q-cite/
>>>    - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Aug/0100.htmland related
>>>
>>> question:
>>>
>>> Is the change backwards compatible? i.e. does it break anything?
>>> data appears to show that metadata about a quote inside blockquote
>>> element is common
>>>
>>>> ”inside blockquote” was used 57% of the time, while
>>>> “outside blockquote” was used 43% of the time.
>>>>
>>>> source:
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Aug/0100.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> SteveF
>>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 August 2013 07:53, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I have made a change in the HTML 5.1 editors draft to allow citations
>>>> to be included in a footer element within a blockquote element.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> review and comment welcome!
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> SteveF
>>>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>