- From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:24:22 +0100
- To: Willem-Siebe Spoelstra <info@spoelstra.ws>
- Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CA+ri+VnXQpDPpEW4iXd_ptK1_MJtVmBUiHHt3adFR5ct0AtVAw@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Willem, what code are you suggesting? a heading? -- Regards SteveF HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> On 16 October 2013 15:22, Willem-Siebe Spoelstra <info@spoelstra.ws> wrote: > Hi Steve, > > You convinced me of the arrows and I downloaded NVDA myself also! > Thanks for adding <a></a> to the current page list item, and thanks to Ben > Barber bringing this up. > > The only thing is I still don't understand why to leave the nav element > unnamed. I think "You are here" is a pretty good name for this sectioning > content. > > Vriendelijke groet, > > Willem-Siebe Spoelstra > > Sellebrating > Ganeshastraat 67 > 1363XA Almere > Tel: + 31 6 459 575 83 > E-mail: info@spoelstra.ws > KvK-nummer: 55419038 > > > > 2013/10/16 Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> > >> Hi Willem, >> >> >> -- >> >> Regards >> >> SteveF >> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> >> >> >> On 16 October 2013 14:47, Willem-Siebe Spoelstra <info@spoelstra.ws>wrote: >> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> Thanks for the update on this. >>> In the explenation you still mention the 'ol', >>> >>> Authors are encouraged to markup bread-crumb navigation as an ordered >>>> list using the ol<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-ol-element> >>>> and li<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-li-element> >>>> elements. >>> >>> >>> In this discussion different authors have different opinions, so I would >>> like to bring in some again. >>> >> >> I have changed it to say list without encouraging either one. >> >>> >>> 1) Why do you choose to let the sectioning nav element unnamed? The "You >>> are here" can better become a header to name this specific sectioning >>> content. >>> 2) This is a good comment on Jens his post: >>> >>> A breadcrumb represents a path through a tree, not the tree itself. The >>>> consecutive items make it clear we’re going step by step down the tree >>>> structure, so the path is just one-dimensional. >>> >>> >>> In my opinion OL is still the better choice. However, when you say: >>> >>> as in practice i think it makes little difference >>> >>> >>> why don't mention it is up to the author to use OL or UL? >>> >>> 3) The arrows should not be content but CSS in my opinion. >>> >> >> the arrows convey direction to sighted users and I think they should also >> convey direction to other users too, having them in text means that they >> are announced by AT for example. NVDA announces: (→ "right arrow") >> >> list with 4 items >> You are here: >> link >> Main >> → >> link >> Products >> → >> link >> Dishwashers >> → >> Second hand >> >> >> >>> 4) What I also don't understand is why no <a> is being used on the >>> current page list item, see this comment: >>> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22739#c5 >>> >> >> fixed that >> >>> >>> >>> Vriendelijke groet, >>> >>> Willem-Siebe Spoelstra >>> >>> Sellebrating >>> Ganeshastraat 67 >>> 1363XA Almere >>> Tel: + 31 6 459 575 83 >>> E-mail: info@spoelstra.ws >>> KvK-nummer: 55419038 >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/10/16 Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> >>> >>>> Hi all after reviewing the discussion and other input I have made some >>>> changes to the example: >>>> >>>> 1. have included the text label as text rather than in aria-label as i >>>> think it is useful for any uers. >>>> 2. have changed it from a OL to UL as in practice i think it makes >>>> little difference in this case, the relationship of precedence is provide >>>> by the use of the right arrows (thanks jens) to indicate path. >>>> 3 have added right arrows. >>>> 4 added note to discourage use of > angle brackets >>>> >>>> Note: >>>> Again, this is only an editors draft for further review it is not >>>> (necessarily) the final product. >>>> Although as sylvia points out > is often used, if we can encourage >>>> authors to use the right arrow which makes more sense then all the better. >>>> >>>> >>>> thanks also to david mac for the test case and user feedback very >>>> helpful! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> SteveF >>>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 26 January 2013 17:00, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Section 4.13.1 Bread crumb navigation (under Common idioms without >>>>> dedicated elements [1]) >>>>> >>>>> encourages the use of the right angle bracket to indicate a >>>>> breadcrumb navigation trail: >>>>> >>>>> <p> >>>>> <a href="/">Main</a> > >>>>> <a href="/products/">Products</a> > >>>>> <a href="/products/dishwashers/">Dishwashers</a> > >>>>> <a>Second hand</a> >>>>> </p> >>>>> >>>>> The use of > in this context does not appear to be a good practice to >>>>> promote as the angle bracket is a symbol that depending on user agent >>>>> (AT in this case) is typically announced as "greater" or not announced >>>>> in this context. Either way it is not clearly convyed that its a >>>>> breadcrumb trail. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It may be that this is not an issue for users who consume the angle >>>>> brackets in this context and the pattern of its use conveys that it is >>>>> a breadcrumb trail. If it is a problem I suggest that this example >>>>> would need to be revisited to see if we can come up with something >>>>> that is more useful to a wider range of users. >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/common-idioms.html#common-idioms >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> with regards >>>>> >>>>> Steve Faulkner >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
Received on Wednesday, 16 October 2013 14:25:32 UTC