- From: Willem-Siebe Spoelstra <info@spoelstra.ws>
- Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 16:22:13 +0200
- To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Cc: Willem-Siebe Spoelstra <info@spoelstra.ws>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAPGOeDsdGoUBrH=+QcugTEN7xauy5KzawFV-i7a+xdq6m4iQpw@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Steve, You convinced me of the arrows and I downloaded NVDA myself also! Thanks for adding <a></a> to the current page list item, and thanks to Ben Barber bringing this up. The only thing is I still don't understand why to leave the nav element unnamed. I think "You are here" is a pretty good name for this sectioning content. Vriendelijke groet, Willem-Siebe Spoelstra Sellebrating Ganeshastraat 67 1363XA Almere Tel: + 31 6 459 575 83 E-mail: info@spoelstra.ws KvK-nummer: 55419038 2013/10/16 Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> > Hi Willem, > > > -- > > Regards > > SteveF > HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> > > > On 16 October 2013 14:47, Willem-Siebe Spoelstra <info@spoelstra.ws>wrote: > >> Hi Steve, >> >> Thanks for the update on this. >> In the explenation you still mention the 'ol', >> >> Authors are encouraged to markup bread-crumb navigation as an ordered >>> list using the ol<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-ol-element> >>> and li<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-li-element> >>> elements. >> >> >> In this discussion different authors have different opinions, so I would >> like to bring in some again. >> > > I have changed it to say list without encouraging either one. > >> >> 1) Why do you choose to let the sectioning nav element unnamed? The "You >> are here" can better become a header to name this specific sectioning >> content. >> 2) This is a good comment on Jens his post: >> >> A breadcrumb represents a path through a tree, not the tree itself. The >>> consecutive items make it clear we’re going step by step down the tree >>> structure, so the path is just one-dimensional. >> >> >> In my opinion OL is still the better choice. However, when you say: >> >> as in practice i think it makes little difference >> >> >> why don't mention it is up to the author to use OL or UL? >> >> 3) The arrows should not be content but CSS in my opinion. >> > > the arrows convey direction to sighted users and I think they should also > convey direction to other users too, having them in text means that they > are announced by AT for example. NVDA announces: (→ "right arrow") > > list with 4 items > You are here: > link > Main > → > link > Products > → > link > Dishwashers > → > Second hand > > > >> 4) What I also don't understand is why no <a> is being used on the >> current page list item, see this comment: >> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22739#c5 >> > > fixed that > >> >> >> Vriendelijke groet, >> >> Willem-Siebe Spoelstra >> >> Sellebrating >> Ganeshastraat 67 >> 1363XA Almere >> Tel: + 31 6 459 575 83 >> E-mail: info@spoelstra.ws >> KvK-nummer: 55419038 >> >> >> >> 2013/10/16 Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> >> >>> Hi all after reviewing the discussion and other input I have made some >>> changes to the example: >>> >>> 1. have included the text label as text rather than in aria-label as i >>> think it is useful for any uers. >>> 2. have changed it from a OL to UL as in practice i think it makes >>> little difference in this case, the relationship of precedence is provide >>> by the use of the right arrows (thanks jens) to indicate path. >>> 3 have added right arrows. >>> 4 added note to discourage use of > angle brackets >>> >>> Note: >>> Again, this is only an editors draft for further review it is not >>> (necessarily) the final product. >>> Although as sylvia points out > is often used, if we can encourage >>> authors to use the right arrow which makes more sense then all the better. >>> >>> >>> thanks also to david mac for the test case and user feedback very >>> helpful! >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> SteveF >>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> >>> >>> >>> On 26 January 2013 17:00, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Section 4.13.1 Bread crumb navigation (under Common idioms without >>>> dedicated elements [1]) >>>> >>>> encourages the use of the right angle bracket to indicate a >>>> breadcrumb navigation trail: >>>> >>>> <p> >>>> <a href="/">Main</a> > >>>> <a href="/products/">Products</a> > >>>> <a href="/products/dishwashers/">Dishwashers</a> > >>>> <a>Second hand</a> >>>> </p> >>>> >>>> The use of > in this context does not appear to be a good practice to >>>> promote as the angle bracket is a symbol that depending on user agent >>>> (AT in this case) is typically announced as "greater" or not announced >>>> in this context. Either way it is not clearly convyed that its a >>>> breadcrumb trail. >>>> >>>> >>>> It may be that this is not an issue for users who consume the angle >>>> brackets in this context and the pattern of its use conveys that it is >>>> a breadcrumb trail. If it is a problem I suggest that this example >>>> would need to be revisited to see if we can come up with something >>>> that is more useful to a wider range of users. >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/common-idioms.html#common-idioms >>>> >>>> -- >>>> with regards >>>> >>>> Steve Faulkner >>>> >>> >>> >> >
Received on Wednesday, 16 October 2013 14:23:02 UTC