Re: 4.13.1 Bread crumb navigation - use of right angle brackets

Hi Willem,


--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>


On 16 October 2013 14:47, Willem-Siebe Spoelstra <info@spoelstra.ws> wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> Thanks for the update on this.
> In the explenation you still mention the 'ol',
>
> Authors are encouraged to markup bread-crumb navigation as an ordered list
>> using the ol<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-ol-element>
>>  and li<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-li-element>
>> elements.
>
>
> In this discussion different authors have different opinions, so I would
> like to bring in some again.
>

I have changed it to say list without encouraging either one.

>
> 1) Why do you choose to let the sectioning nav element unnamed? The "You
> are here" can better become a header to name this specific sectioning
> content.
> 2) This is a good comment on Jens his post:
>
> A breadcrumb represents a path through a tree, not the tree itself. The
>> consecutive items make it clear we’re going step by step down the tree
>> structure, so the path is just one-dimensional.
>
>
> In my opinion OL is still the better choice. However, when you say:
>
>  as in practice i think it makes little difference
>
>
> why don't mention it is up to the author to use OL or UL?
>
> 3) The arrows should not be content but CSS in my opinion.
>

the arrows convey direction to sighted users and I think they should also
convey direction to other users too, having them in text means that they
are announced by AT for example. NVDA announces: (→ "right arrow")

list with 4 items
You are here:
link
Main
 →
link
Products
 →
link
Dishwashers
 →
Second hand



> 4) What I also don't understand is why no <a> is being used on the current
> page list item, see this comment:
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22739#c5
>

fixed that

>
>
> Vriendelijke groet,
>
> Willem-Siebe Spoelstra
>
> Sellebrating
> Ganeshastraat 67
> 1363XA Almere
> Tel: + 31 6 459 575 83
> E-mail: info@spoelstra.ws
> KvK-nummer: 55419038
>
>
>
> 2013/10/16 Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
>
>> Hi all after reviewing the discussion and other input I have made some
>> changes to the example:
>>
>> 1. have included the text label as text rather than in aria-label as i
>> think it is useful for any uers.
>> 2. have changed it from a OL to UL as in practice i think it makes little
>> difference in this case, the relationship of precedence is provide by the
>> use of the right arrows (thanks jens) to indicate path.
>> 3 have added right arrows.
>> 4 added note to discourage use of > angle brackets
>>
>> Note:
>> Again, this is only an editors draft for further review it is not
>> (necessarily) the final product.
>> Although as sylvia points out > is often used, if we can encourage
>> authors to use the right arrow which makes more sense then all the better.
>>
>>
>> thanks also to david mac for the test case and user feedback very helpful!
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> SteveF
>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>
>>
>> On 26 January 2013 17:00, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Section 4.13.1 Bread crumb navigation (under Common idioms without
>>> dedicated elements [1])
>>>
>>>  encourages the use of the right angle bracket to indicate a
>>> breadcrumb navigation trail:
>>>
>>> <p>
>>>   <a href="/">Main</a> >
>>>   <a href="/products/">Products</a> >
>>>   <a href="/products/dishwashers/">Dishwashers</a> >
>>>   <a>Second hand</a>
>>>  </p>
>>>
>>> The use of > in this context does not appear to be a good practice to
>>> promote as the angle bracket is a symbol that depending on user agent
>>> (AT in this case) is typically announced as "greater" or not announced
>>> in this context. Either way it is not clearly convyed that its a
>>> breadcrumb trail.
>>>
>>>
>>>  It may be that this is not an issue for users who consume the angle
>>> brackets in this context and the pattern of its use conveys that it is
>>> a breadcrumb trail. If it is a problem I suggest that this example
>>> would need to be revisited to see if we can come up with something
>>> that is more useful to a wider range of users.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/common-idioms.html#common-idioms
>>>
>>> --
>>> with regards
>>>
>>> Steve Faulkner
>>>
>>
>>
>