Re: 4.13.1 Bread crumb navigation - use of right angle brackets

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the update on this.
In the explenation you still mention the 'ol',

Authors are encouraged to markup bread-crumb navigation as an ordered list
> using the ol<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-ol-element>
>  and li<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-li-element>
> elements.


In this discussion different authors have different opinions, so I would
like to bring in some again.

1) Why do you choose to let the sectioning nav element unnamed? The "You
are here" can better become a header to name this specific sectioning
content.
2) This is a good comment on Jens his post:

A breadcrumb represents a path through a tree, not the tree itself. The
> consecutive items make it clear we’re going step by step down the tree
> structure, so the path is just one-dimensional.


In my opinion OL is still the better choice. However, when you say:

 as in practice i think it makes little difference


why don't mention it is up to the author to use OL or UL?

3) The arrows should not be content but CSS in my opinion.
4) What I also don't understand is why no <a> is being used on the current
page list item, see this comment:
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22739#c5


Vriendelijke groet,

Willem-Siebe Spoelstra

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2013/10/16 Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>

> Hi all after reviewing the discussion and other input I have made some
> changes to the example:
>
> 1. have included the text label as text rather than in aria-label as i
> think it is useful for any uers.
> 2. have changed it from a OL to UL as in practice i think it makes little
> difference in this case, the relationship of precedence is provide by the
> use of the right arrows (thanks jens) to indicate path.
> 3 have added right arrows.
> 4 added note to discourage use of > angle brackets
>
> Note:
> Again, this is only an editors draft for further review it is not
> (necessarily) the final product.
> Although as sylvia points out > is often used, if we can encourage authors
> to use the right arrow which makes more sense then all the better.
>
>
> thanks also to david mac for the test case and user feedback very helpful!
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
> On 26 January 2013 17:00, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Section 4.13.1 Bread crumb navigation (under Common idioms without
>> dedicated elements [1])
>>
>>  encourages the use of the right angle bracket to indicate a
>> breadcrumb navigation trail:
>>
>> <p>
>>   <a href="/">Main</a> >
>>   <a href="/products/">Products</a> >
>>   <a href="/products/dishwashers/">Dishwashers</a> >
>>   <a>Second hand</a>
>>  </p>
>>
>> The use of > in this context does not appear to be a good practice to
>> promote as the angle bracket is a symbol that depending on user agent
>> (AT in this case) is typically announced as "greater" or not announced
>> in this context. Either way it is not clearly convyed that its a
>> breadcrumb trail.
>>
>>
>>  It may be that this is not an issue for users who consume the angle
>> brackets in this context and the pattern of its use conveys that it is
>> a breadcrumb trail. If it is a problem I suggest that this example
>> would need to be revisited to see if we can come up with something
>> that is more useful to a wider range of users.
>>
>> [1]
>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/common-idioms.html#common-idioms
>>
>> --
>> with regards
>>
>> Steve Faulkner
>>
>
>