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Re: [RESEND] suggestion: modify <small> definition

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 13:14:48 +0200
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: "Patrick H. Lauke" <redux@splintered.co.uk>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20130522131448793583.b23b8b5c@xn--mlform-iua.no>
The point with ’suppressed’ is to say that the prominence actually is 
the same - it is unaffected.

Leif H Silli

Leif Halvard Silli, Wed, 22 May 2013 13:10:43 +0200:
> Hi Steve,
> 
> 'reduced prominence' could probably work. 
> 
> But with respect to what Ian said about ’often more important’, may be 
> ’suppressed prominence’ could also work? The word ’suppressed’ could 
> also be meaningful with regard to the fact that small text in headings 
> can be suppressed from the outline. THus:
> 
> ’The small element represents content with _suppressed_ prominence such 
> as small print.’
> 
> Leif H Silli
> 
> 
> Steve Faulkner, Wed, 22 May 2013 10:39:08 +0100:
>> Hi leif,
>> 
>> ok I get your drift 'de-promote' is a bit clunky
>> 
>> how about
>> 
>> The small element represents content with reduced prominence such as small
>> print.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> SteveF
>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>> 
>> 
>> On 21 May 2013 19:20, Leif Halvard Silli
>> <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>wrote:
>> 
>>> Steve Faulkner, Tue, 21 May 2013 14:26:17 +0100:
>>>> fair enough, so how about the following
>>>> 
>>>> "The small element represents de-emphasised content"
>>> 
>>> De-emphasize can be interpreted as 'remove emphasize'. Would rather
>>> support the proposal about 'de-promote/demote': "The small element
>>> represents content that is de-promoted". Some words of justification:
>>> 
>>> * A heading is more prominent than the article it’s a heading for.
>>>   But a heading isn’t, because of its prominence, ’emphasized’.
>>> * Text outside <small> does no need to be emphasized, even if it
>>>   is more prominent: <p>A word. <small>So small.</small></p>.
>>> * A heading part set in <small> would be less prominent than the
>>>   rest of that heading - but still more prominent than body text.
>>> * Prominent content is what one would consider including in an
>>>   abridged version or outline. Demoted content would be candidate
>>>   for exclusion from a short version/outline.
>>> * Prominence is not affected by <strong> or <em> (but rather by
>>>   things like heading level and order of occurrence).
>>> 
>>>> On the topic of users who don't get the effect of smaller text:
>>>> 
>>>> To my knowledge <small> is the same as <span> for screen reader users, so
>>>> in a sense they are advantaged as the visual de-emphasis is not apparent
>>> 
>>> If HTML5 refines the definition, why couldn’t AT start to present
>>> <small> differently, to signal its lowered prominence?
>>> 
>>> Perhaps screen readers could 'illustrate' <small> by reading its
>>> content faster, so that the user can’t so easily get the details of
>>> what the text without asking the screen reader software to read slower?
>>> For instance, imagine that, for a piece of software, the BSD license
>>> was placed inside the <small> element.  In fact, I  think video/audio
>>> adverts to a degree already do read ’small print’ (such as message
>>> about who approved a certain advert) that way. (However, a certain
>>> contextual evaluation of what <small> means, would probably be needed.)
>>> --
>>> leif halvard silli
Received on Wednesday, 22 May 2013 11:15:19 UTC

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