W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > April 2013

Re: indicating subtitles using small

From: Ian Devlin <ian@iandevlin.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 09:22:26 +0200
Message-ID: <CAOYOhSuJzF9Pd7ZmWcaSyKuMwkzFh4zm74o8gievJ6iaVcfuTQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
But how many of those websites are based on Twitter Bootstrap?

On 7 April 2013 23:35, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:

> >I believe
> >the use of small for sub-thingies in headings also predates HTML5
> i did a quick grep of <small> in h1/h2/h3  https://
> dl.dropbox.com/u/377471/tests/smallinhx.html <https://t.co/1lllq5VA1s>
> using the http://webdevdata.org data set
> --
> Regards
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
> On 7 April 2013 22:07, Mallory van Achterberg <stommepoes@stommepoes.nl>wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 08:23:00PM +0100, Léonie Watson wrote:
>> > Steve Faulkner wrote:
>> >> “what are peoples thoughts on extending <small> to identify
>> >> subheadings/subtitles taglines etc. when used as a descendant of a hx
>> >> element?”
>> >
>> > I think it would be prudent to keep <small> for marking up  small print
>> like
>> > legal disclaimers etc. Extending it to include taglines etc. would blur
>> the
>> > semantics too much.
>> >
>> > This does have echoes of the <hgroup> question though. I wonder whether
>> it’s
>> > worth revisiting the idea of a purpose built element for taglines,
>> > straplines and the like?
>> I've been using <small> for exactly this sub-heading use for some
>> time now. While I could agree that it should be a "no" if it must
>> remain more a fine-print/legal text semantic, the reason I've been
>> using it over a span is really how I hear it in my head: the same
>> way I hear small print and often stuff in parenthesis, and for this
>> reason the text is indeed usually styled smaller (same reason legal
>> text is).
>> The fear of blurring the semantics more is, in my view, already done
>> since HTML5 making a new meaning of an old tag pretty much means
>> most developers will be using the original meaning, if any. I believe
>> the use of small for sub-thingies in headings also predates HTML5, but
>> someone would have to show evidence like Steve's hgroup research.
>> The arguments of the Bootstrap guys are not very convinving; for
>> them, any tag would do and they chose this one. Hey, they also use
>> <li> for heading tags too. If some in the WG would rather stiffen up
>> the usage of <small> to restrict this kind of random usage, I'd
>> understand. And then we'd have more reason to figure out tagline
>> solutions.
>> OT:
>> Then again I've continued using <address> for addresses, and would
>> rather the name change to reflect "webmaster contact email".
>> -Mallory

ian devlin
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Received on Monday, 8 April 2013 07:22:57 UTC

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