- From: Dean Leigh <dean.leigh@deanleigh.co.uk>
- Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 07:29:08 -0000
- To: <public-html@w3.org>
I think the naming of this element as <hsub> indicates and therefore restricts its use to only being a sub Sub-Heading. Whereas <subline> may in future be used as 'sub' to other elements e.g. <caption>, <figcaption>. Therefore I would like to propose that the element be further simplified to <sub>. - This addresses the semantic issues as it is a <sub> of its preceding tag - It can be ignored in outlines - It can be styled easily with > We can then which focus discussion on which tags are eligible for <sub>. Regards, Dean Leigh >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Simon Pieters [mailto:simonp@opera.com] >>Sent: 07 November 2011 06:40 >>To: public-html@w3.org; Kornel Lesiński >>Subject: Re: Change Proposal to replace hgroup with a simple element >> >>On Mon, 07 Nov 2011 00:38:32 +0100, Kornel Lesiński >><kornel@geekhood.net> >>wrote: >> >>> >>> I agree with Lars Gunther that reuse of <h1-h6> for subheadings causes >>> nothing but trouble, and subheadings can be marked up in a more >>> straightforward manner. >>> >>> I'd like to propose a new element that IMHO is much easier to understand >>> and use correctly, satisfies all major use cases of <hgroup> and does >>> not break outline in legacy UAs. >>> >>> The proposal is in the wiki: >>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hSub >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> Change Proposal >>> >>> Replace <hgroup> with an element that has a simple content model and >>> backwards compatibility. >>> >>> Rationale >>> >>> * <hgroup> overloads meaning of <h1-h6>, making them either >>> headings included in document >>> outline or not, depending on context created by hgroup and other >>> headings. No other >>> element in HTML creates such ambiguous context-dependent >>meaning. >>> >>> * Name and usage of <hgroup> can be confused with <header>, since >>> both appear in headers >>> and group elements. >>> >>> * <hgroup>'s content model disallows adding extra <div>s around >>> multiple subheadings, which >>> may be needed as styling hooks. >>> >>> * Existing content on the web does not use as complex multi-level >>> subheadings as <hgroup> >>> was intended to support. There is no need to precisely mark up >>> levels of subheadings, as >>> the whole title is meant to be read in (document) order and >>> subheadings are not used for >>> sectioning/navigation. >>> >>> Details >>> >>> <hsub> element is a subheading. It represents a subheading for its >>> section (i.e. it is >>> associated with the heading in the same section that the <hsub> is >>> in). The algorithm for >>> associating <hsub> with a section is the same as for <h1-h6>, except >>> <hsub> does not imply >>> new sections. >> >>So basically it's associated with a section in the same way as <p>. >> >>> <hsub> element has same content model as <h1-h6>. >>> >>> Optionally: <hsub> can be allowed to be nested inside <h1-h6>, which >>> allows full title to be >>> seen as a header in legacy UAs and makes it easy to style heading >>> and subheading using CSS. >>> >>> Examples >>> >>> <body> >>> <h1>Title</h1> >>> <hsub>Subtitle</hsub> >>> >>> <h1>Second Title</h1> >>> <div> >>> <hsub>Second Subtitle 1</hsub> >>> <hsub>Second Subtitle 2</hsub> >>> </div> >>> </body> >>> >>> <article> >>> <hsub>The Magical</hsub> >>> <h1>Title</h1> >>> <hsub>That Has</hsub> >>> <hsub>Multiple Subtitles</hsub> >>> </article> >>> >>> Styling >>> >>> The most common usage of subheadings can be styled simply with h1 + >>> hsub CSS selector. >>> Authors can make complex headers easier to select by wrapping >>> headings and subheadings in >>> <header>. Relaxed content model allows "styling hook" elements to be >>> added as necessary. >>> >>> Authoring errors >>> >>> Mistakes in usage of <hsub> cannot break document outline, which is >>> a significant improvement >>> over <hgroup>. >>> >>> At worst, in a rather rare case of subtitle preceeding the title, >>> subtitle may end up >>> associated with an earlier heading: >>> >>> <h1>Unrelated title</h1> >>> <p>Content</p> >>> >>> <hsub>Preceeding subtitle</hsub> >>> <h1>Title</h1> >>> >>> However, this kind of mistake can be easily eliminated by use of >>> <section>/<acticle> >>> elements: >>> >>> <section> >>> <hsub>Preceeding subtitle</hsub> >>> <h1>Title</h1> >>> </section> >>> >>> Risks >>> >>> Removal of the <hgroup> element. >>> >> >>FWIW, I think this proposal is better than the <p>-in-<header> proposal >>(which changes meaning of <p> based on placement) and the <subline> >>proposal (which allows <h2> in <subline> so still breaks the outline in >>legacy impl). >> >>My only concern with this proposal is whether <hsub> should be allowed >>"anywhere" or if it should be restricted in some way (e.g. require a >>heading in its section, don't allow it in implied sections unless it is >>follows the heading element directly). >> >>-- >>Simon Pieters >>Opera Software
Received on Monday, 7 November 2011 07:31:56 UTC