- From: Ranon, Marco <Marco.Ranon@rnib.org.uk>
- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 16:17:51 +0100
- To: "Matthew Turvey" <mcturvey@gmail.com>, <public-html@w3.org>
Hi Matt, I just wanted to point out that the RNIB Surf Right standards do not recommend using longdesc, which is different from recommending not to use longdesc. We believe that longdesc has been badly - if not at all - implemented by user agents (including assistive technology) and has been misunderstood and misused by authors. And the two things are related as chicken and egg. From our experience, nowadays most screen readers support longdesc but still it isn't available to sighted keyboard users. This is why in Surf Right "we don't recommend the use of the LONGDESC attribute because it isn't available to users without screen readers. The long description should be made available to everyone who can't process information conveyed in images, whether or not this inability is sight related." However, we require that if used, "LONGDESC attributes are used appropriately and accurately". Regards, Marco --- Marco Ranon Principal Web Access Consultant RNIB Access Consultancy Services -----Original Message----- From: public-html-request@w3.org [mailto:public-html-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Turvey Sent: 16 June 2011 16:54 To: public-html@w3.org Subject: Re: ISSUE-30 longdesc - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals On 16 June 2011 03:13, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote: > James Graham writes: >> On 06/15/2011 03:54 PM, Janina Sajka wrote: >> >Matthew Turvey writes: >> >>longdesc is not implemented in Orca or VoiceOver so is currently >> > >> >Stop right there. Repeating untruths does not make them true. >> > >> > aobviously, you haven't looked at: >> > >> > html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/InstateLongdesc >> >> Sorry, could you be more clear about what exactly you mean here? I >> guessed that you might mean [1], but that doesn't seem to mention >> VoiceOver or Orca at all. >> >> A little internet searching suggests that longdesc might well not be >> supported in Orca [2], VoiceOver [3] or, indeed, NVDA [4], so I am confused >> as to what the "untruths" you refer to are. Has the level of support in >> those UAs changed recently? > > Nevertheless, Orca can access longdesc perfectly well via the Firefox > plugin that is mentioned in the CP. In fact, I use it myself all the > time. I can't see any "untruths" here. Has the level of support in these UAs changed recently? :) Since Orca and VoiceOver do not currently implement support for londesc, *by default* longdesc is inaccessible on the Mac and Linux platforms. Users can install a Firefox longdesc extension, or maybe a Safari longdesc extension in future. Maybe some have even heard of iCab. But they need to know about it first, to be able to install it, as Jason's experience demonstrates. Users could also install an aria-describedby extension, but don't necessarily need to because the element(s) pointed to by aria-describedby are available on the page by default. Apologies if my mangled sentences confused you. > My friend Jason just wasn't aware he needed a plugin. Regretable--and it > needs remedy, but > that doesn't invalidate the functionality that is available. It does appear to invalidate your claim that longdesc currently "DOES provide effective and consistent support for users regardless of browser and AT". This is why the RNIB's Surf Right standard explicitly recommends *not* using longdesc, and WebAIM recommends using a duplicate link if using longdesc. Longdesc is not available to all users, so you cannot rely on it to deliver a "a reliable and effective user experience." My understanding is PFWG members support obsoleting longdesc, but some members believe we need more time to properly deprecate it. Is that correct? Could you answer the questions from Sam's email? 1) WHO needs more time? 2) How much time would they LIKE? 3) How much time could they LIVE WITH? 4) What would be the IMPACT in terms of negative effects if they were not provided that time? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Apr/0181.html -Matt To report this e-mail as Spam, please forward it to: spam@mailcontrol.com -- DISCLAIMER: NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to delete it and any attachments from your system. RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However, it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments. Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RNIB. RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227 Website: http://www.rnib.org.uk This message has been scanned for viruses by Websense Hosted Security - http://www.websense.com/content/HostedEmailSecurity.aspx
Received on Friday, 17 June 2011 15:20:42 UTC